Hi everybody,

this is my first in progress-thingy on this fine site - the Trumpeter RA-5C Vigilante. It's a great kit, looks fab. I am planning to build it mostly out of the box but anything could happen. It's quite pricey in the UK (about £40-50 I think) and looks like just the sort of thing I can botch beyond belief, which is why I was afraid to touch it.

I am going to try and take my time building it, rather than hacking through it at my usual pace, cos it's for my dad, who is a great bloke and served in the Navy for 25 years. He got me into modelling as a kid and the Vigilante is his all-time favourite plane - he remembers one blasting past his ship (HMS Blake) at below deck level on Exercise Midlink 74 while they were in the Indian Ocean with USS Constellation. (NOT BAD! )

So - the version I am building uses Aeromaster decals for a RVAH-11 Vigi on board Constellation in 1975. I will also be using some artistic licence to make it look good so it won't be an exact replica or whatever.

Here's what's in the box:


This is a little something I spotted while looking for Revell 1/72 U-boat accessories - a Nautilus Models wooden brace for the slightly mis-fitting fuselage halves:


Let's see how this thing turns out.....

This looks interesting I saw that Nautilus brace when the kit first came out - apparently, it's to stop the kit from collapsing during/after building, as it's not very well engineered in that department. Looks like it's got the potential to be a scorcher... what's the size of that thing in 1:48?

I built mine many years ago, It was one of the first test run of the kit. No box, no instructions and a tone of flash and release agent to boot.

Makes a fine model thou.

Theres a few photos of the one I did <<HERE>>

She it a real dirty Bird

started already!

I think I must have been kidding myself about OOB - Everything looked a little plain when i test fitted the cocckpit. I haven't any decent cocckpit photos either apart from the instrument panels and ejector seats so i used a bit of licence (ie. I just made it all up) using wire and bits of sprue:


The canvassy tops of the parachutey-bits on the seats are just tissues soaked in PVA glue. Looked ok to me.

More to come after I've been for a swim!

Al

fantastic looking aircraft, looking forward to seeing more pics

Its a beautiful aircraft, and the kit is very good. I'll post some pics of mine. Size wise, it's similar to a Tomcat or Eagle, huge compared to a Skyhawk though. I had few problems putting mine together, and it hasn't fallen apart yet. You migh find it easier to put the main landing gear in place before glueing the fuselage halves together. I'll get those pics for you
Joel

Ok went a bit nuts with the detailing (by my standards anyway!) - I spose i now have to do the whole model to this level....

Cocckpit walls done with silver foil, wire and stray photoetch:


Here's how it all fits together (pretty well so far - it's a nice kit)




next: priming and painting!

Cheers,
Al

That's lookin' reet smart Al

Mike don't you have anything better to do?!! (I mean, thanks!)

I'm going to bed now!

Nighty night

Al

I'm just waiting for the bathroom to come free, so I can brush my teeths & then slip into a deep slumber... hopefully just after I reach my bed

Harumpf!!! You give a guy a compliment, and he tells you to go to bed <stomps off>

Teeths? Do you keep a spare set then?












I'm pushing my luck here arent I?

I'll put it down to you being oooover tired

Here is my Vigilante





AG-604 from RVAH-14, the Eagle Eyes onboard the USS Independance. Decals by Aeromaster

With a few friends



Its the biggest on here out of this group, length wise its similar to a Tomcat, spanwise, its very close to an Intruder!

Comparison with a Skyhawk


Its huge!
Quite a few things can fold on the kit, wings, tail and radome. I never had any construction issues that made me want to curse it or bin it. It required a little more patience than some other kits, but the result is well worth it. It will definately not be the last one.
Joel

Oh, mate the cockpit looks fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imagine what you could have done if it wasn't an OOB build!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep us posted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nyshe!

Here - what was the role of the Viggi? I notice a few people have compared it to the Skyhawk... was there any relevance to that comparison?

originally, supersonic , shipboard tactical bomber- used for very short time in vietnam/ korea

failed and relegated to stategic recce, didn't do much better


Ed

Still... it looks nice

The Vigilante was originally a tac strike bomber with a nuclear cababilty as Ed said, under the designation A3J/A-5A, it was a replacement for the A-3 Skywarrior tac bomber. It didn't fail in this role as it was never truely tested in it, its only major short coming was that it was a difficult aircraft to land on a carrier and this coupled with rookie pilots led to quite a few ramp strikes.
Around this time the Navy's nuclear polaris missile submarine fleet came on line, as such it was deemed by the powers that be, that the airbourne element of the Navy's nuclear force was no longer needed by 1963.

With the new improved A-5B already on the production lines, its airframe differs a little in places such as it now has the distinctive humpback that wasn't on the A-5A, the decision was made to convert them into recon aircraft and so the RA-5C was born. Though secretly it still rertained the ability, with a few hours in the hanger, to deliver nukes.

In Vietnam the only Vigilante to see service was the RA-5C, it flew over a target before and after a strike package had been to its target to take pre and post bombing mission photos. This happened as regular as clockwork and once the North Vietnamese air defences cottoned on this they accounted for quite a few Vigilantes. So its not to say it was a failing of the airframe but rather, as with the majority of the air combat in Vietnam, a failing of strategy.

On an interesting note, the Vigi' which introduced several firsts (intake design, internal bomb carriage etc), many believe that the Soviet MiG-25 was directly influenced by many of the Vigi's features, save for the bomb bay obviously.


Oh and lovely work on the cockpit phatness.

The Vigilante was way ahead of its time (1962) and featured the first ever digital fly-by-wire system, active autothrottle and computerised fire-control system. It was Mach 2.5 capable and the A-5B/RA-5C version had a very long range due to the extra fuel in the humpback. It was withdrawn as a strategic bomber after the introduction of Polaris in 1963, but the recce version was regarded as very successful by the US Navy and led to further production orders.

It had the highest loss rate of any jet in Vietnam, as Oliver says this was due to the predictable flight pattern of following in the main bomb run at low level 10 minutes after the attack, by which time the North Vietnamese gunners had reloaded and were ready and waiting. With only 4 planes per squadron embarked on carriers, to lose 3 in three months was staggering.

(If anyone is interested in the Vigi's Vietnam record and some interesting anecdotes about the experience of flying it, I would recommend you go have a look at Bob Jellison's site (ex-Vigi pilot) here). It is very interesting and reveals a lot about the capability of the aircraft, which was in many ways America's TSR.2

The Vigilante story demonstrates that truly world-beating aircraft appearing ahead of their time rarely get a decent chance to shine due to short-sighted strategists.

Worth commemorating methinks!

Not much more to add what Oliver and PHaT said really, but the RA-5 had a considerable conventional attack capability, it could carry all types of bombs, rockets and missiles, but seldom used. They were too precious and irreplacable in the recon role to do a job which deck fulls of Skyhawks, Corsairs, Intruders Skyraiders and Phantoms could do. At the time the A3J was replaced by Polaris, the strategy was nuclear or nowt. Had the switch occured a couple of years later, we could well have seen more vigis used in an Intruder type conventional role A version was considered by the USAF for use an an ADCOM interceptor, this had three engines, and it was considered for the Blue Angels at one time! The US Navy has never had anything to match the capabilities of the RA-5 or RF-8 since they retired.
The comparison with the Skyhawk is for size Mike(ooerr!), the smallest and the biggest. (I know the A-3s were heavier, and E-2s / A2Js had a bigger wingspan, but hey)
Joel

Progress!! This is going at a snail's pace for now, getting about an hour every few days been so busy at work:

Finished the cocckpit: (i think it looks better from a reasonable distance away, the closeup photos always look a bit cr@p!)










I added seatbelts, seat wiring, electrical wiring, air and hydraulic pipes, air vents and circuit breaker panel, plus radar console visor for the backseater. (All completely unnecessary as most of it will be hidden under the canopy!)

Wheels and wheelwells next - should get a decent crack at it soon as i've got some time off next month!

Cheers for looking,

Al.

looking good so far Al!

Stephen

well that pit must look pretty impressive from a distance, because it looks pretty good up close and personal. Know what you mean though

The pit looks fantstic mate..... only 1 thing if i am allowed mate... i think that the escape handles over the head are on the big side? I am not familiar with the aircraft but they look a bit big to me!!!!!

Yeah your right - might make some new ones from small gauge wire if I can be ar$ed to do the yellow and black lines again! Otherwise the decision to close the canopies stands....!

Thanks for the well-meant and constructive criticism, it is most welcome!

All the best,

Al

Hi Al,

I hope your Viggie is coming along well; from what you've posted here, it should be very impressive. I was describing to a friend with that kit the Nautilus Models brace set (I've got the 72nd one, and haven't thought far enough ahead to wonder if the smaller kit requires any bracing), and he was curious about its employment and necessity. I'd be interested to hear how well (or otherwise) it worked for you when it comes to installation.

To sidetrack a little, if I may.....


Joel, could you please direct me to (or send) any more pics of your A-4C from VA-46, please? I assume it's 1/48; mind if I ask what decals you used for that scheme, and/or what reference you have? I've seen few photos of that unit, and it tickles my fancy (it being a CVW-17 member an' all). Any pointers would be gratefully received.

Here endeth the mini-hijack, and good luck with the rest of your build, Al.

Cheers,

Andrew (liking the Viggie the more I read about it - thanks for the link, Joel).

I am not aware of any "falling apart when built" tendencies or otherwise of this kit Andrew, but I can say that the brace is nigh on essential for making a good stab at making the fuselage halves fit together. I'm not saying the model won't build without it, as Phil, Bandagon & co clearly have made it work beautifully without. All I'm saying is that an average to middling builder like me needs it to save the hours of filling and sanding which would help me ruin it otherwise!

I'll post pics of the completed brace "in situ" and compare it with pics of the fuselage with and without the brace.

*BAD NEWS ALERT* I've just received my copy of Bioshock (first-person shooter computer game for the uninitiated) from Amazon.co.uk so it looks like all modelling projects will be shelved until I've finished it! Talk about an amazing game or what!

All the best,
Al

Hi Al,

Thanks for your answer; I hope your Viggie isn't feeling too neglected, now that Bioshock's arrived.....

Pics of the brace in situ would be much appreciated; any in-progress stuff is always interesting.

Cheers,

Andrew

Hi Andrew,
The Skyhawk is an E model, from VA-46,AA-414 BuNo 150118. It is the Hasegawa 1/48 E/F. The decals are from a Victory Models sheet that was released in 2003. The sheet features 10 famous early skyhawks from the Vietnam War. Included are Cdr Estocins VA-192 Iron Hand machine, the first strike launched from a nuclear carrier:- Cdr Kruger from VA-94 on board Enterprise, and an early Lady Jessie. The decals are excellent, and full stories are given to each of the options.
AA414 is one of the the squadrons 7 Skyhawks lost in the Forrestal fire in 1967. An excellent Skyhawk site is skyhawk.org. There should be a good section on VA-46.http://www.skyhawk.org/
Hope this helps Andrew, I'll post some more pics for the Skyhawks later
Joel

Nautilus brace details - for Andrew mostly, but may be of interest to others:

Hope you have broadband (lotsa pics!)

Here's the brace made up - stuck together with wood glue:


Here's the BEFORE pics - note large step running longitudinally about 6 inches, most noticeable on the bottom:



The pics don't show it so well, but the lower sides of the fuse also bow inwards (ie. towards the upper half of the body)

The brace fits in like so - you need to test fit it, assemble and glue it, then let it cure "in situ" with the fuse halves rubber banded together so that it fits properly:


You need to shave off the fuselage mounting pins to get a smooth fit:


It looks like this when fitted - very snug!



The step and gaps are significantly reduced to manageable levels!



Of course you realise that using this brace means you won't be able to fit those lovely seamless Cutting Edge intakes you just coughed up 30 quid on, nor the kit's engines. The Nautilus set therefore includes intake and exhaust FOD covers. The holes in the rear bulkhead allow you to use the kit jetpipes cut down to fit, or the Aires jetpipes which will fit without modification.

Hope this helps,

Al

PS. Bioshock beckons! see ya.....

Hi Al,

Great pics, thanks very much! If I can get my mate to have a look, I think he'll appreciate the difference the Nautilus set makes - it certainly seems to eliminate one large potential misalignment. Pity about the intake/exhaust situation. Can you be selective in which parts of the brace you use so that intakes and exhausts aren't affected? I thought the holes in the after bulkheads were to permit an exhaust each; maybe I'd better pay close attention!

Keep up the great work, and thanks again for your updates. You seem pretty keen to play Bioshock, better not keep you...

Cheers,

Andrew

Damn, i wish they did something like that for the 72nd kit, just a test fit on mine shows i'm gonna need to brace it a little with spare sprue already.

Wow - you rarely see plastic and balse used in the same build. Neat idea

Isn't it? You'd have thought that Trumpy would have dealt with such an obvious weak point in the kit though, wouldn't you? That said, it probably wouldn't be that hard to create some bulkheads & braces from thick stock to do the same job. Still, how they expect any joint with that much unsupported plastic around it to hold throughout the construction process is beyond me.

Hi Joel,

I couldn't find an emoticon that adequately conveyed the sense of numptiness I feel in replying.... Of course it's an A-4E, I should've known that from the research I did earlier in the year on the Forrestal fire, and the A-4 and F-4 units aboard in particular. I think that the Squadron A-4 Walkaround book has your aircraft on the cover, or something similar (and I have that book.....) and I'd saved a few pics from Skyhawk.org.....

Anyway, some more pics of your jets would be great.

Thanks for your help and the pointers.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,
Don't worry, as you probably noticed if you went on Skyhawk.org, VA-46 flew Cs before the Echo. Interestingly, they had to convert to Bravos because of the Forrestal fire. I will get some photos done
Joel

Hi again everyone - an update on some progress made (cos i can't play Bioshock when the kids are in the house!)

Tried detailing up the wheel wells a bit - I used to be scared s--tless doing this sort of thing, but it's not so bad if i keep it at this simple level:



I also put the hydraulic brake lines and electrical wire on the landing gear - the hydraulic hoses on the main gear look pretty substantial on my reference photos, the Vigi must have been able to stop on a penny!


On the nose gear i also added the electrical light box which houses the red, green and amber vertical flight path indicators for the Landing Signals Officer.


Here's the more or less finished landing gear - the lights are all MV lenses :



On to the fuselage/brace assembly - it fits perfectly, the cockpit slots in very snugly too - you can see how the engines can still be used with the brace if you cut them off just before the afterburner section:



So it's now all stuck together, wings are attached and I've assembled all the flaps and slats - some minor gaps to fill but otherwise it all fits up nicely.

A couple of Trumpeter peculiarities which I decided to rectify are the shape of the tailfin and the distinctive humpback. The Trumpy tailfin finishes with a perfectly horizontal "slash" across the top common to the earlier A3J and A-5A- I added a little Milliput and puttied smooth to make the more aesthetic curved top typical of RA-5C's:


The only other slight problem with the tailfin is that the Trumpy version is a little too wide in chord at the bottom with a more aggressive taper - it would be too much work to get right so i left it as it is - it still looks the part!

The humpback is not really represented in the Trumpy kit, which is a shame as it is probably the most distinctive feature of the Vigi's profile. So i slapped on some more Milliput and doubled my Vigi's fuel load!


That's the show so far - I'm off on a 9-day business trip from Thurs so this will probably be the last update for a couple of weeks. But unlike others - I am NOT leaving Britmodeller!

All the best,

Al

PS. don't burgle the house while I'm away, right?

Hi Al,

Thanks for the update on your admirable progress. Everything looks great and it seems to be coming together for you nicely. Thanks also for the info about the Trumpy tail; will have to look out for that on the smaller version. Keep up the great work, and best wishes for a safe trip away.

Cheers,

Andrew

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Trumpeter Vigilante should have a more curved profile to the spine. How much did you raise it?

Jens

Thanks Andrew - I'm actually going your way (Sydney!)

Jens - it needs a smooth curve from the rear of the RAN's canopy which peaks about 3mm above the current profile exactly level with where the leading edge of the wing joins the intake (ie. in line with the leading egde of the first inboard slat). It then curves down to the end of the existing humpback just forward of the two panels on the topside.



Right, I'm orf now!

Cheers, Al

The internal bracing will make ALL the difference. I had the devils own job with mine and in the end I Wiffed the whole project.
Dont think Ill try another until Tamiya release theirs that should be about the time I see Haleys comet again.

Sorry folks - camera is dead.

I could tell you about the rest of the build but it would be like listening to snooker on the radio. When I get a replacement I suppose I will have to post pics of the finished article as i'm nearly there now...!

Just a few observations for the benefit of others trying this kit:

I can say that the Nautilus brace worked very well and provided a lot of strength when it came to fitting and sanding the intakes (the only problem area regarding fit on the whole kit - not bad!)

Spraying all the white caused a few headaches but nothing too scary. I fitted the gear doors closed to spray the underside and they are a *perfect* fit - it would very much simplify an inflight build.

Having fitted the Vigi "hump" and had to slightly remodel and rescribe the rear canopy, i would say it's probably more trouble than it's worth overall.

This is the first Trumpeter kit I've actually built (even though I have a bunch in the stash) and I have to say the quality is pretty darn good, especially in the area of overall fit - dodgy fuselage notwithstanding.

I guess that's that for now - will post finished article if I get the camera before this gets shipped off to Dad!

Never mind,

Al

Hi Al,

Pity about your camera, but hope that you can post some pics when it's finished. How was your trip to Australia? Do you come here (go there?) often? Sydney has a great harbour and ....... a great harbour going for it, but it can be a painful place to live; maybe that's just the country git in me coming out.

Anyway, look forward to seeing how your Vigilante turned out.

Cheers,

Andrew.

WOW WOW WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks amazing mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep the photos coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very nice indeed. A quick question if I may.........where do you get your MV Lenses from? UK or ordered Stateside?

Loki

I ordered MV Lenses from the US - Internet Model Trains, the link is here they have the full range i think!

Most lenses are suitable for 1/32 or large 1/48 scale models - smaller than that i don't know about! If you need to check sizes, try this site


periklis - I wish I could!!!!!!!

All the best,

Al

Yep still no camera.

thanks for joining me on this fabulous in progress build - I hope it has given you lots of inspiration to go out and make your very own 1/48 Trumpeter Vigilante.

Cheers,

Al

GIT