And now for something completely different...

[badgeguy17]

Greetings to one and all,

Does anyone have access to photos of this bird in rare RAF livery?

The only one that I could dig up was from an ancient Flying Review International and that particular pic is about the size of a postage stamp.

Perhaps someone knows of an article covering this aircraft with accompanying photos or art work in RAF service.

I know that they were obtained from a french order and that four were kept in the UK with the remainder shipped off to the SAAF and used for trainers or target tugs. I think a model in this gear would certainly be far from the norm and an interesting conversation piece.

Can anyone help?

TIA.

Wayne

[Julien]

I found this on the web;

Following the beginning of the Second World War with the German invasion of Poland, the French Armee de l'Air felt an urgent need for dive bombers, and since the US Army considered the A-17A to be obsolescent, the French Purchasing Commission that was touring the USA looking for aircraft was given permission to obtain 93 of the ex-USAAC A-17As.

The 93 A-17As ordered by France were withdrawn from USAAF service and were returned to the Northrop factory (which was by this time known simply as the El Segundo Division of Douglas) where they were refurbished and re-engined with 825 hp Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp JrS2A5-G engines. Unfortunately, by the time that the planes were ready for delivery, France had fallen. The contract was then taken over by the British Purchasing Commission, which at that time was willing to buy just about anything that had wings. The British A-17As were given the RAF name Nomad. RAF serials were AS440/AS462, AS958/AS976, and AW420/AW438.

However, the RAF also deemed the Nomad to be obsolescent, and decided to restrict it from combat operations. 60 of the RAF Nomads were transferred to South Africa. 17 were lost at sea en enroute. The survivors were taken on charge in February 1941 by the SAAF, where they were used for training. None of these aircraft ever saw any combat. They remained in service until the end of 1942 when they were replaced by Fairey Battles. The last SAAF Nomads were struck off charge in 1944.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a17_2.html

Julien

[Terry McGrady]

Greetings to one and all,

Does anyone have access to photos of this bird in rare RAF livery?

The only one that I could dig up was from an ancient Flying Review International and that particular pic is about the size of a postage stamp.

Perhaps someone knows of an article covering this aircraft with accompanying photos or art work in RAF service.

I know that they were obtained from a french order and that four were kept in the UK with the remainder shipped off to the SAAF and used for trainers or target tugs. I think a model in this gear would certainly be far from the norm and an interesting conversation piece.

Can anyone help?

TIA.

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Kits at War sheet K7/33 SAAF has a A17A option .DG/DE over Trainer Yellow. A/C Coded D17 in MSG SAAF Serial being 1260.of 42 Air School , Port Elizabeth.

Of 93 taken over from French Contracts 32 remained in Canada becoming 3490-3521 and were used by nos 4, 6&9 Gunnery and Bombing Schools .The remaining 61 were allocated RAF Serials AS440-462, AS958-976 and AW420-438.

All but one AW421 were sent to South Africa 17 of which were lost at sea en route AW421 became Maintenance Airframe 2670M in March 41

Cheers

Terry McGrady

Edited September 30, 2009 by Terry McGrady

[Nick Millman]

Several very nice paintings of them in SAAF livery in Ron Belling's book.

[Terry McGrady]

Several very nice paintings of them in SAAF livery in Ron Belling's book.

Hi Nick I've never seen that book . Did you obtain it in the UK?

Regards

Terry

[Nick Millman]

Hi Terry

Yes, great book, published by Midland Counties - 'A Portrait of Military Aviation in South Africa', 1989 (ISBN 0 904597 59 8) - well worth obtaining, not least because each of the paintings has detailed colour notes. 150 paintings of 100 aircraft types from 1917 to 1975, including visitors. All but 15 painted using the artists own observations, sketches and notes of the actual aircraft made at the time.

There are four available from UK booksellers on Abe.

Regards

Nick

[Max Headroom]

I'm sure one of the last Air Enthusiasts had an article about it. I'll burrow into my archive.

[Seahawk]

Greetings to one and all,

Does anyone have access to photos of this bird in rare RAF livery?

The only one that I could dig up was from an ancient Flying Review International and that particular pic is about the size of a postage stamp.

Perhaps someone knows of an article covering this aircraft with accompanying photos or art work in RAF service.

I know that they were obtained from a french order and that four were kept in the UK with the remainder shipped off to the SAAF and used for trainers or target tugs. I think a model in this gear would certainly be far from the norm and an interesting conversation piece.

Can anyone help?

TIA.

Wayne

Wayne

To be pedantic, don't think you'll find pics of true "RAF" ones because I don't think they ever served with the RAF.

If you want one in British markings, there's a picture of AS441 while it was being evaluated at Boscombe Down on page 137 of Tim Mason's "The Secret Years" (Hikoki, 1998). Picture is too muddy to reveal much beyond that it has an A1 fuselage roundel and a Type A fin flash that runs the whole height of the fin. Unlike the SSAF ones, the camouflage seems to have a low demarcation line between upper and lower surfaces. (Boscombe Down weren't interested in the type enough to write a report on it.)

If you're interested in SAAF ones, the best source I know of is a book called "Yellow Wings - The Story of the Joint Air Training Scheme in World War Two" by Capt David Becker and published by the SAAF Museum (date unknown). This has a total of 7 shots of SAAF Nomads. All are too small and dark for reproduction. There are a couple of pictures of 1260 "D17" as depicted by Kits At War, who I think got their transfers right. Other serial/code tie-ups are 1226 "D1" and 1265 "15". There's also a pic of "D6" (serial unknown). They all seem to be in dark earth/dark green/trainer yellow with the fuselage demarcation half way down the fuselage (passing just below the intake on the portside of the cowling and continuing beneath the tailplanes. Some had full height fin flashes: "D17" and "15" did not. Type A underwing roundels. No underwing target tug stripes visible on any. There is a black parallel-sided walkway on at least the starboard wingroot, extending from the trailing edge to in line with the rear edge of the pilot' windscreen. I haven't been able to find out any details of the Grumman-supplied target-towing apparatus but there's nothing visible in the pics.

If, like me, you're think of doing the MPM/Special Hobby 1/72 kit as one of these , NB you'll need to add:

- complicated telescopic sight assembly before the windscreen

- wing machine guns (2 in each wing)

- a very tall aerial just ahead of the observer's cockpit, at least as high as the fin but looks a bit higher

- (this is where mine stalled) an extended exhaust pipe along the starboard side of the fuselage ending roughly in line with the rear of the pilot's canopy. Pictures are rare and not clear but it seems to bulge out partway along and then shrink to original diameter just before the end (think snake after swallowing its prey).

Think all these mods apply to AS441 as well as the SAAF ones.

If anyone else knows of any other shots of SAAF Nomads, please do tell, esp if they have clear pictures of that exhaust pipe.

If you like the esoteric and ever see Dave Becker's book at a reasonable price, it's well worth a look: full of pics, some in colour, of Ansons, Hurricanes, Kittyhawks, Harvards, Masters, Harts, etc in unusual markings plus oddities like impressed Ryan ST-A, Koohoven FK46, Buecker Jungmann, Hornet Moth, etc.

HTH

Nick

Edited September 30, 2009 by Seahawk

[badgeguy17]

To Julien, Terry, Nick, Max and Sea Hawk thanks so much for the feedback.

Max I think I found the Air Enthusiast article that you were referring to earlier in the Sept/Oct 1998 No. 77 issue.

Interestingly it mentions that AS967 and AS971 were lost to accidents and AS958 and AW421 were retained in Great Britain.

That SAAF Nomad trainer scheme certainly looks interesting with the mid fuselage demarcation .

Does anyone know if the Kits at War sheet K7/33 includes a diagram of the Nomads top view camouflage pattern?

If so, may I request a scan of this from someone?

Thanks again guys.

Cheers.

Wayne

[Terry McGrady]

To Julien, Terry, Nick, Max and Sea Hawk thanks so much for the feedback.

Max I think I found the Air Enthusiast article that you were referring to earlier in the Sept/Oct 1998 No. 77 issue.

Interestingly it mentions that AS967 and AS971 were lost to accidents and AS958 and AW421 were retained in Great Britain.

That SAAF Nomad trainer scheme certainly looks interesting with the mid fuselage demarcation .

Does anyone know if the Kits at War sheet K7/33 includes a diagram of the Nomads top view camouflage pattern?

If so, may I request a scan of this from someone?

Thanks again guys.

Cheers.

Wayne

Hi Wayne , Yes It does PM me your email addy and I will send you ascan of the decal instructions

Cheers

Terry

[Nick Millman]

There is a photograph of AS974 on page 65 of K J Meekcoms 'The British Air Commission and Lend Lease' (Air-Britain, 2000).

Ron Belling's notes on their colouring in SAAF service is as follows:-

"Although a few Northrop Nomads were yellow overall with diagonal Black stripes, most were finished in Dark Green and Dark Earth with the Black and Yellow diagonally-striped undersides specified for target tugs. Some, however, had overall Yellow undersides, and one was seen with natural metal wings. A, A1 and B roundels were worn, as well as fin flashes. Most aircraft displayed only their rear fuselage serial number, but some had large Pale Grey numbers and letter-and-number combination. Although well used, their matt finish was in good condition."

I second Seahawk's endorsement of "Yellow Wings - The Story of the Joint Air Training Scheme in World War Two" by Capt David Becker.

[Terry McGrady]

Hi Terry

Yes, great book, published by Midland Counties - 'A Portrait of Military Aviation in South Africa', 1989 (ISBN 0 904597 59 8) - well worth obtaining, not least because each of the paintings has detailed colour notes. 150 paintings of 100 aircraft types from 1917 to 1975, including visitors. All but 15 painted using the artists own observations, sketches and notes of the actual aircraft made at the time.

There are four available from UK booksellers on Abe.

Regards

Nick

Hi Nick,

Thanks for that must get a copy been wondering what to buy the Wife for Christmas - shes got enough DIY equipment

regards

Terry

[badgeguy17]

Hi Wayne , Yes It does PM me your email addy and I will send you ascan of the decal instructions

Cheers

Terry

Hi Terry,

I sent you my email address.

Thanks so much for the kind offer.

Regards.

Wayne

[Nick Millman]

Photograph of AS974