F4 (J)

[GrahamS]

Guys

Can I tap your infinite wisdom?

I have the Tamiya 1/32 F4(J) and wish to do it in UK colours. I already have the Yellowhammer decals.

Any suggestions for a weapon load? And supplier? Any big changes to be made to the kit?

Thanks in anticpation

Graham (NO another one!)

[Gary West]

Graham -

Load options - as regular for RAF F4J's

Outer wing - 2 x Sgt Fletcher wing tanks or not occupied.

Inner wing - most common day to day fit was one dummy AIM occupying the outer position of each missile rail. Occassionally totally empty but retaining missile rails. Personnel pods could be carried from one side under the sidewinder rails too.

Under fuselage center - large fuel tank or unoccupied.

Forward inset missile positions - usually carried ballast rounds, which would be configured to offset the trim dependingon the load.

Best to take a look at Airliners.net search for F4J's Here

[Dave Fleming]

QRA birds would be fully armed - 4 x AIM9, 2x or 4x Sparrow or Skyflash (The J used the former longer than regu;lar RAF F4s) and either a centre pod of the SUU-23 gun pod)

One point worth mentioning is that when not on QRA, the Js rarely carried the wing tanks

[Bandwagon 106]

Graham,

One important point, the Sidewinders included in the kit are AIM-9Es, Air Force models (from the first Tamiya C/D) release. They are completely wrong for an F-4J (UK), or any Navy Phantom for that matter. You would need the AIM-9L/M if you were doing No.74Sqn, or a 1976+ USN/MC J, and the AIM-9G/H for a 1967-76 Navy bird.

Fear not, Cutting Edge do a whole range of Sidewinders in 1/32, if you want any 9Ls, I have loads left from my Academy Hornets spare, drop me a line if you want this option.

Joel, a Phantom Phreak!

[seanrgb]

I did mine as ZE350 In Flint Grey

Just used the 2 Wing Tanks and a SU23 Cannon

[GrahamS]

Guys

Many thanks for the info

All have to do now is finnish that bloody tsr2 first!

Good job the Phantom won't need any filler!

Bandagon - many thanks for the offer - but I too have the Hornet.

Regards from sunny Gambia

Graham

[rdxtnt]

Hi Graham,

I didn't join the site until after your post so missed the thread. I've got a few bits which may be of use as I spent 2 years on 74 Sqn ('87-'89). For standard day to day flying centreline tanks were the order of the day. The aircrew reckoned that they could get away with pulling slightly more "g" with the one tank on the centreline as opposed to a pair of Sargeant Fletchers on the outboards (a fact they wasted no time in reminding 56 Sqn aircrew who were flying FGR2's from the other side of the airfield). This was a bit of a pita for us as every time there was an engine problem the first job would be to remove the tank so that the "sumpies" could drop the engine doors. If you were on night shift this invarioubly meant a very late early morning finish waiting for the engine problem to be fixed before you could get the tank back on. The rest of the standard fit would be a pair of ballast missiles on the front 2 stations. These were the same shape as a Sparrow/Skyflash missile body (without the wings and fins) but were made of concrete with spun aluminium nose and tail cones. The ballast missiles were painted dark blue. Also fitted would be an aquisition Sidewinder missile (usually fitted to the port outer Sidewinder station). These missiles consisted of a live seeker head but with a dummy rocket motor and warhead and were used to give the aircrew practice at obtaining a "growl" in their headphones when aquiring a target. Live missiles were rarely carried during day to day flying especially after the accidental shooting down of a Jaguar in RAFG in 1984. The pilot apparently had a spot of brain fade and forgot he was carrying live missiles and not an aquisition. It must have been quite a shock when he obtained a good growl on the Jag, pressed the trigger and whoosh. The bodies on these aquisition missiles were painted in a light blue colour with the head being the colour of a standard live missile. No wings and fins were fitted. The yellow noddy caps would be fitted at ALL times on the ground. Besides protecting the glass nose of the missile these caps had another very important function. The seeker head on the missile was mounted on gimbals and spun at high speed whenever electrical power was applied to the aircraft for servicing purposes. If electrical power was then switched off the missile seeker would "topple" as it slowed down causing serious damage to the missile. The noddy cap had a magnetic band around its' circumference to maintain the head in the central position as it slowed down. The noddy caps were usually only removed by an armourer after the aircraft engines had been started prior to flight and were always refitted after landing before the engines were shut down again. This applies to all aircraft which carried Sidewinder eg Hawk, Jaguar, Tornado etc.etc.

Another difference on the F4J(UK) was the chaff and flare installation. These were positioned port and starboard on the top sides of the fuselage about mid-way down between the cockpit and the tail. They were concealed under a door which was operated by the rear seat occupant. A safety pin and flag was fitted to these doors at all times when the aircraft was on the ground even when when the magazines were not loaded.

I have seen the Yellowhammer decal sheet and it shows the port and starboard inner wings as being painted in a darker shade of grey.This could well be but during the period I was there the wings on all aircraft were painted in the same shade of bluey green as the rest of the aircraft.

Sorry if this post has rambled on somewhat but hopefully it will enable you to make a more accurate model.

Gary.

[Bandwagon 106]

Some fantastic information there Gary. Were the chaff and flares present for F-4Js in US service (mid to late 70's-retirement),and where they placed on the K/M?

Thanks, Joel

[rdxtnt]

Some fantastic information there Gary. Were the chaff and flares present for F-4Js in US service (mid to late 70's-retirement),and where they placed on the K/M?

Thanks, Joel

Couldn't say for sure Joel but as the UK ones were purchased directly from storage in USA I would imagine it was a feature that was already in place. Otherwise I'm sure the RAF would have mounted them on the rear of the inboard pylons as on the FGR2.

[GrahamS]

Gary

Very many thanks - most useful info

Not got very far with it yet, though have recentky taken delivery of the Cutting Edge seemless intakes (courtesy Relish Models - brill service). They are absolutely fantastic and well worth the money

Cheers

Graham (getting increasingly wee weed off with this crappy internet service - it's dropped out at least eight times while I've been typing this message so I've no idea if you'll ever get it. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!. This is Africa I suppose...)

[rdxtnt]

Gary

Very many thanks - most useful info

Not got very far with it yet, though have recentky taken delivery of the Cutting Edge seemless intakes (courtesy Relish Models - brill service). They are absolutely fantastic and well worth the money

Cheers

Graham (getting increasingly wee weed off with this crappy internet service - it's dropped out at least eight times while I've been typing this message so I've no idea if you'll ever get it. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!. This is Africa I suppose...)

Got it Graham. Good luck with the model........hope it turns out well.

Gary.

[Dr S]

When I built mine (See below) I had an excellent set of photos to go from.

They were taken by a club member who was in the air cadets at the time. Shots of ZE355/S , complete with black tail.

I have put them on the IPMS West Glam website. They are GREAT photos, taken before digital was invented by a teenager with his instamatic!.

Its also interesting to note on the side shots of the intakes that this a/c has the BDR patches which everyone tells you to carve off from the Tamiya kit!

anyway, have a look at

http://www.geocities.com/ipmswestglam/f4juk/

G

Edited June 24, 2007 by Dr S

[rdxtnt]

When I built mine (See below) I had an excellent set of photos to go from.

They were taken by a club member who was in the air cadets at the time. Shots of ZE355/S , complete with black tail.

I have put them on the IPMS West Glam website. They are GREAT photos, taken before digital was invented by a teenager with his instamatic!.

Its also interesting to note on the side shots of the intakes that this a/c has the BDR patches which everyone tells you to carve off from the Tamiya kit!

anyway, have a look at

http://www.geocities.com/ipmswestglam/f4juk/

G

Some great detail shots there. The paintwork was very worn wasn't it? All the F-4J(UK)'s were ex US Navy/Marines aircraft and I can remember one of them (ZE352/G I think) once sported the famous Playboy bunny scheme. When it was on 74 Sqn the black paint on the tail started to fade and you could see the white rabbit starting to show through. Superb photo's and thanks for posting them.

Gary.

[AnonymousAA72]

When I built mine (See below) I had an excellent set of photos to go from.

Its also interesting to note on the side shots of the intakes that this a/c has the BDR patches which everyone tells you to carve off from the Tamiya kit!

http://www.geocities.com/ipmswestglam/f4juk/

G

Phantastic photo's!! Phanks phor sharing...

I really can't see the BDR patches you're referring to though, apart from the alu plate on the port wing root leading edge - which I assume is a repair.

On the Tamiya kit these panels seem to be all over the (seemingly randomly) place, and are very, very noticeable - yet I just can't see them on the pic's????

Cheers

Bill

[AnonymousAA72]

Hi Graham,

I didn't join the site until after your post so missed the thread. I've got a few bits .....

............ but hopefully it will enable you to make a more accurate model.

Gary.

Referring to the above, Gary (I haven't reproduced the whole item..hope you don't mind) many MANY thanks for sharing that info - very enlightening and helpful from not only a historic viewpoint, but modelling one as well!! Very inspiring..Thanks!!

Now wheres that BIG Tamiya box and then Yellowhammer decals?????

[rdxtnt]

Referring to the above, Gary (I haven't reproduced the whole item..hope you don't mind) many MANY thanks for sharing that info - very enlightening and helpful from not only a historic viewpoint, but modelling one as well!! Very inspiring..Thanks!!

Now wheres that BIG Tamiya box and then Yellowhammer decals?????

Bill, A good reference publication for detail photos etc is Aeroguide No.25 "Tiger Squadron Phantom" published by Linewrights Ltd. I believe it's out of print now but you see them occasionally on e-bay. That's where I picked up mine. Loads of black and white photo's and a few in colour.

[SHAR67]

I just had my memory and a copy of the Lock-on F-4J/UK when I came to do mine.

Cheers Clive.

[AnonymousAA72]

Bill, A good reference publication for detail photos etc is Aeroguide No.25 "Tiger Squadron Phantom" published by Linewrights Ltd. I believe it's out of print now but you see them occasionally on e-bay. That's where I picked up mine. Loads of black and white photo's and a few in colour.

Yes, I have that tome .....somewhere!!! ....also have the Verlinden "lock-On" with some great colour shots of the FGR2, FG1 as well as the F4J(UJK)....

I can recall the time when one of the retired 'J's was "parked" out in the open at RAF Manston., and I swear it changed colour depening on the weather - ranging from a pale green in a thunder storm to a pale blue in a rare sunny day!

[Phil @ Flory Models]

It's amazing what you find, I forgot I'd even done a F-4J in 74sqn marking.