Gloster Gladiator questions

[Maxidad]

I am building the Lindberg 1/48 Gladiator Mk.II and have a couple of questions which I am sure can be answered on Britmodeller.

1) Lindberg's kit is a Mk.II. I have bought Aeromaster decals to build NN5515 (of defence of Malta fame). What are main differences between the Mk.I and Mk.II.

2) Should I scratch build a gun sight? Any good construction tips here?

3) Aeromaster suggests black/white lower surfaces. Is this correct? Or should it be Sky Grey underneath?

Thanks for your help.

[perry]

Outwardly, no difference. You will need a 3 bladed prop though. The Gladiators were Sea Gladiators. The dinghy housing below the f/large was removed on the Malta Glads as were the arrestor hooks. The arrestor fairings was left on though.

The lower wings and f/large were painted black and white and the upper wings lower f/large sky grey.

You could try using a coil of copper wire for the gunsight

[perry]

If it helps, have a search for my Gloster Gladiator vac

[Maxidad]

Thanks, Perry. Lovely vac build, btw. It is tricky to see the undersides though from the pics you posted. Does the black and whote extend onto the fuselage itself? I ask because the Aeromaster call-out would have you paint only the lower wing and horizontal tail surfaces, not the fuselage itself.

[Dave Fleming]

Was there not a difference in the intake beneath the engine cowling?

[Edgar]

I trust that it was a slip of the typing finger, but N5515 wasn't on Malta. It's now been established that N5519 was "Charity," with N5520 as "Faith," and it's fairly certain that "Hope" was N5531. Sea Gladiators were identical to the Gladiator II, which had the under-cowling intake; this was missing on the Mk.I. The upper surfaces of the lower wings should be counter-shaded, so would be Dark Sea Grey, and Slate Grey, in a different pattern from the top wings.

Edgar

[Test Graham]

Bearing in mind that there were at least six Gladiators used (though not at once), I'd be a little hesitant about being so definite about which one carried which name - except perhaps very late on, when they were camouflaged in standard RAF Dark Green/Dark Earth/Sky (well, not so sure about the Sky!). I think that the FAA scheme looks better, as at this time the RAF scheme lacked the shadow shading.

[Edgar]

Actually, I'm quoting from the research of the Malta Aviation Museum, TaQ'ali, who state that there were 11 Gladiators, and can quote serial nos, who flew them, and when. N5519, N5520, N5521 were the first-built genuine fighters (although N5525, N5527, N5530 & N5533 flew, fleetingly, during March, 1940,) but N5521 only lasted until 2-4-40, when N5531 took its place. On the 27-11-41, Charles Palliser recorded the name "Faith," in his logbook, and it's now known that, on that day, he flew N5520. John Pain said that he saw "Hope," as a bombed-out wreck, and it's known that N5531 was bombed 4-2-41. Peter Hartley was flying N5519, when he was shot down, in July, 1940, so, by a process of elimination, it has to be "Charity." In December, 1941, incidentally, an LAC said that N5520 was, then, painted silver all over.

Edgar

Edited January 14, 2008 by Edgar

[Maxidad]

It was an error in the numbering - the serial number is 5519.

[Test Graham]

I think you (and others, not picking on you personally!) are making an assumption that the names had to be attached to the first three, rather than being something that accrued later. As I recall from my reading, there were people on the island who only heard about the names long afterwards, and deny that they were in use in the early days.

[Maxidad]

I'm not getting involved! All I wanted to know was about the precise colour scheme, particularly on the under surfaces.

btw, thanks for everyone's contributions!

Edited January 14, 2008 by Maxidad

[John Aero]

I'm not getting involved! All I wanted to know was about the precise colour scheme, particularly on the under surfaces.

btw, thanks for everyone's contributions!

Be aware that the Mk.2 (Mercury V111A) was fitted with the Fairey Reed three blade fixed pitch metal airscrew but some if not all the Malta Gladiators were fitted with Mercury's from Blenheims and the airscrews on these were DH / Ham Std two speed bracket types and at least one other reverted to a two blade wooden prop.

John

[Maxidad]

...some if not all the Malta Gladiators were fitted with Mercury's from Blenheims and the airscrews on these were DH / Ham Std two speed bracket types and at least one other reverted to a two blade wooden prop.

John

Hmmm...and where could I pick up one of those?

Just seen this website (http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/malta.htm) with a very intersting photo in it: it shows N5519 with a 3-blade prop.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Maxidad

[Edgar]

I think you (and others, not picking on you personally!) are making an assumption that the names had to be attached to the first three, rather than being something that accrued later. As I recall from my reading, there were people on the island who only heard about the names long afterwards, and deny that they were in use in the early days.

Well, Gloster, certainly, heard about them, because they were using the names in The Aeroplane adverts, as early as 1943. In "Fortress Malta," by James Holland, he relates the (claimed) story of how they were named by a Corporal Harry Kirk, who said that they reminded him of his mother's brooch, with the three names etched onto three hearts. This story was first printed in the Daily Star, March, 1958. Holland says that the names were "lore" by the end of 1940.

If the names came along, much later, how did Palliser record the name "Faith," in his logbook, on 27-11-41? I have another book, "Drama in Malta," written by Lt-Col Weldon R.A., (who was in charge of the AA batteries,) who left the island in April, 1943, and he'd heard the names, even though he had no dealings with the aircraft, and he wrote the book from notes that he made at the time.

Edgar

[Nico Teunissen]

Hello,

I did built one of these Malta Sea Gladiators a few years. Not the Lindberg version (which was originally an Inpact kit), but the one from Roden. I painted it according to Roden's instructions. Unfortunately Roden's decals were very bad. So some decals were taken from the scrap box.

As to be seen I left the arrestor hook on.

Maybe these pic's are of some assistence.

Cheers, Nico

[DougN]

Lovely model Nico, I just picked this kit up the other day. What did you use for rigging?

Cheers!

Doug

[Nico Teunissen]

Thanks Doug,

The very old fashioned method: 0,03 mm fishing line.

Cheers, Nico

[Maxidad]

Hey Nico, Sorry I didn't pick this up earlier. That's exactly the help and information I needed. It seems that if the Roden kit colour call-out is the same as the Aeromaster decal sheet I have, that is at least some indication that b/w undersides may be right.

I hope my rigging comes out as well as yours. It's my first bi-plane. I am also using fishing line (as opposed to the kit-supplied wire). It's already attached to the top wing. I hope to be completeing the rigging this weekend.

Thanks again

Richard

[Maxidad]

Just thought I'd show you a few pix of the Gladiator whcih I finally finished. Thanks for your help and advice.

[Nico Teunissen]

Aha,

Very nice finished example as well. Did a good job, it's not the easiest kit around.

Cheers, Nico

[johnELawson]

I'm not getting involved! All I wanted to know was about the precise colour scheme, particularly on the under surfaces.

btw, thanks for everyone's contributions!

If you go to IPMS Stockholm web site they have a Gladiator part 1 and part 2 Sea Gladiator - Malta actually used by RAF in colour and a very good site for down loads of FAA colours generally - you can down load from their index back to late 1990's

johnLawson

[Test Graham]

November 1941 is eighteen months after Italy entered the war. That sounds like "later" to me. I understand there is no contemporary (mid-1940) reference to the names.

Many Sea Gladiators operated with the 2-blade prop, because it gave a small advantage in one part of the envelope, which they preferred. I've seen this discussed recently, but don't recall where, sadly, though memory suggests something like a 50-50 use. The Blenheim variable-speed prop would be expected to be superior overall.

There's also the story that one of these aircraft - said to be Charity(?) - was fitted with upper wing guns, an option on all Sea Gladiators.