Jon Freeman Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 (edited) Hi All. This picture..... Would it have looked like this? There is a slight tonal difference on the roundel outer rings..Yellow? The fin flash looks like it may have just been the narrow White portion too! Would it have had the upperwing roundels applied below the wings too? Your comments are welcome! Cheers and Happy Xmas to all! Edited December 22, 2007 by Jon Freeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 I'd say it was white, tonal differences being due to the panel angle, or angle of the dangle if you prefer. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gengriz Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 I'm not so sure; looking at the overwing markings it looks like the aircraft has the standard small blue/white BEI Fleet markings e.g. as in the Airfix kit but that these have been modified and extended by placing another yellow ring around them.: ), Now I'm not sure why they would do that unless they were also reintroducing the red to the centre, albeit with a small white spot to distinguish it from Japanese markings - There was a lot of official pressure from London to get the red back into the RN markings as the war was drawing to an end, so my bet would be that it looked like these: Underwing markings are anyone's guess but certainly would not have had any yellow in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Given the date and unit history i wouild say it carried type C's above and below the wings and C1's on the the body,applied by Grumman before delivery. It carries the full stencil loadout from a factory finish,so no paint jobs in the field.Its a Glossy Sea Blue job courtesy of Uncle Sam,with a matted down anti glare panel from the cockpit to the nose. The roundels would have been modified though,White surrounds on the wing roundels with white and blue/night? or a homebrew of black and blue used to modify it from C standard. Same with the tail flash this would have been factory painted too with the late war thiner white dividing portion,this too has been modified,but not in a way similar to other contemporary Hellcat photo's. It looks like maybe half of the red has been covered white then the remainder overpainted blue,the rear blue portion would have been there but possibly in a matt finish?. The C/C1's? on the body are the real poser though,again modeified with blue and white paint with possibly the outer yellow ring being overpainted white?. The C -O- 3M codes are slightly brighter than the modified roundel they sit around and were definately added later . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahut Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Man you guys sure know your stuff! Nice pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Nothing to do with red, and I have not heard that story about pressure from London before. Seems unlikely, but do you have a source? However this aircraft is in use in the Indian Ocean, and therefore is under SEAC rules, which the FAA translated as roundel Blue and White. The Wing roundel has been modified rather like a 1943 SEAC roundel, the fuselage has had a small 1945 SEAC roundel applied on top of the standard Roundel. So you may well be right that it is yellow, although the difference in tone is not completely convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmojen Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I know it isn't any help, but it looks cooler in yellow! Jen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) I'm no expert but having just read "Eyes for the Phoenix" there is a section on RN markings which states that during the second qurter of 1945 the RN recieved Hellcats in Glossy Sea Blue, the factory applied markings were replaced with 1943 pattern Admiralty aproved India Command markings or with BPF markings, the former outlined with 2" white borders to define them against the blue background. Maybe the outer band is from a larger roundel that has been overpainted, in which case it could be yellow but may have been overpainted white. Cheers Den Edited December 23, 2007 by spitfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Freeman Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Thanks Chaps! Here are the four permitations based on all your theories. Does it become any clearer? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahut Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I like 3 & 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I would probably go for 1. dull blue and white roundels. Cheers Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Number 1 here too,the white on the tail flash is a few inches too forward,the size is spot on but needs to go aft a few inches to the panel line thats currently bisecting the blue. Great work though and i'm intrigued and excited as to what its for .... or more importantly when i can buy!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Looking at the original picture in Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm, I'd say yellow outer ring. The tone is definitely darker than any of the whites. BTW, if you have the original, look at the reflection of the fin flash on the tail surfaces - I can see what looks like a darker bar forward of the white - red overpainted with roundel blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Freeman Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Hi All. Been playing around with different options after looking at the original pic in Sqns of FAA and this is what I think may have happened... If it is feasable it'll be very nice. Comments are welcome. I changed the fin flash as observed by Gwart & Dave (thanks chaps!) Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Jon, the FAA did not use the light blue centre in the SEAC roundel. It was just white. Reference Geoff Thomas Eyes of the Phoenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Freeman Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Yes Graham you're right... re-amended now... See post below! This one is facinating to crack and I'm enjoying being a bit of a detective! Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Freeman Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 This is my final conclusion to what happened! Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Nailed it i reckon,an optional alternative white surround for the fuselage would be nice though. I would say white but a modified C1 with a retained yellow surround is also just as feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry McGrady Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) This is my final conclusion to what happened! Jon Go with yellow notice also the angle of the "Royal Navy "and serial number on stbd side in photo Edited December 23, 2007 by Terry McGrady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin @ Freightdog Models Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Great work though and i'm intrigued and excited as to what its for .... or more importantly when i can buy!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 (edited) In that case can we start asking questions about BPF Seafires and SEAC Hurricanes in 1/32 nd scale ! Cheers Den Edited December 24, 2007 by spitfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 As is the case in every situation like this, no-one and nothing states one way or the other. My advice would be to build it, but, and this is where you get clever, have another in the stash, 'cause as soon as it's finished and aired for public consumption, some-one will turn up with all the info you've ever wanted or that they flew that very same a/c and can remember the colours. Standard with all builds. Even if some-one disagrees with your choice, the almighty words "Prove it", get them to shut up or put up. Happy seasonal modelling. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gengriz Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Folks, with respect to the sequence of changes here, looking at the date on the photo(Oct 45), I am still convinced that this is an aircraft half way through changing back to C type roundels, from SEAC/BEI Fleet. So I reckon your sequence is back to front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry McGrady Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Folks, with respect to the sequence of changes here, looking at the date on the photo(Oct 45), I am still convinced that this is an aircraft half way through changing back to C type roundels, from SEAC/BEI Fleet. So I reckon your sequence is back to front. If that were the case why would the A/C code letters be painted OVER the Roundel not the other way round ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 The Sqn left their hellcats and moved back to Blighty a few weeks after the date of the pic.I doubt they would be in the process of reverting back to standard markings so close after VJ day and so close to Disbandment. A lot of aircraft (RAF/FAA) retained their SEAC markings for quite some time after VJ day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now