Difference between Tempest mkV and TT5

[Chris Thomas]

Good spot Mark.

Chris

[StephenMG]

^{The actual wording, in relation to the Tempest and Type G winch is,}

^{"The Tempest was the only single engined aircraft to use the winch as it was found that it was too much for the pilot to handle on his own and it was more suitable for two seat aircraft where a winch operator could be used."}

^{Now if, as suggested, the author was basing his experience of the Tempest only on his time at Boscombe Down rather than operationally, then the "too much for the pilot to handle" findings provide the explanation for the 'missing' winch on squadron Tempests in my view. There were no other single-seaters fitted with a winch so it's hard to see why the Tempest would have been fitted with one either.}

[Troy Smith]

Just looked this thread up as paasing on in a PM about Target Towing. Sadly the pics have gone.

But, regarding the use of the Rushton type G winch, and wing mounting with an inert bomb, well, somebody didn't tell the Pakistan Airforce!

OK, it's a Fury, but as a close relative of a Tempest thought worth posting this up.

from here. http://www.paffalcons.com/gallery/fury/index.php

Some interesting photos. More of other types in the gallery.

[StephenMG]

Is it a conversion of a T.61 though, in which case it would have a second crewman to operate the winch?

I've just found a photo of a model of L973 which, if it's correct, suggests it is. I've tried a dozen times to add a link to it in this post but it just doesn't work...so I've given up before I break something.

Edited April 6, 2014 by StephenMG

[Troy Smith]

Hi Stephen

never occurred to me! Interesting thought, hard to tell from this photo, though IIRC two seat Furies/Sea Furies have longer tail planes.

Just paste in the URL for the link, even if it does not 'link' the it's possible to cut and paste it into browser address bar.

cheers

T

EDIT PS

got me pondering, via google books I found a partial online version of Kev Darling's Sea Fury book.

L973 is listed in the PAF page 128

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-IdNAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PA122&ots=BtqbPKXpFO&dq=hawker%20sea%20fury%20serials&pg=PA128#v=onepage&q=hawker%20sea%20fury%20serials&f=false

L964 to L973 were WE775 to WE784, built as FB11, [see page 122]

Apparently the PAF only got 5 T.61's, though book seems to list 6

T.61, K850 ex Iraq contract, K851-K854, K858 was VX305

I don't know if this is correct or not. But if so, L973 is a FB.60.

hopefully others will know more.

[gingerbob]

WOW! That there's a (Sea) Fury with a difference! Tucked away for future reference...

bob

[StephenMG]

Hmm, I spotted those links as well Troy which seem to disprove the theory! Interesting one this.

Anyway, this is the model I mentioned - http://modelstories.free.fr/analyses/avions/MS2008_11P/ARFX_SFURY/ARFX_SF_FIN_PAK2.JPG (my links are working OK on this computer for some reason), and this is the page it came from - http://modelstories.free.fr/analyses/avions/MS2008_11P/ARFX_SFURY/index.html. It's in French but doesn't appear to explain why the builder chose that serial or where the decals came from so hard to tell how accurate it is.

[PeteRBarkeR]

Hi all. I have joined your group specifically because of this thread. I am currently working on the Special Hobby tempest Mk V and building it as a TT5. The discussion on the winch/cable attachment particularly caught my attention, but none of the images seem still to be there. Can anyone help?

 

PeteR

[Wez]

20 minutes ago, PeteRBarkeR said:

Hi all. I have joined your group specifically because of this thread. I am currently working on the Special Hobby tempest Mk V and building it as a TT5. The discussion on the winch/cable attachment particularly caught my attention, but none of the images seem still to be there. Can anyone help?

 

PeteR

 

Pete,

 

Can't help with the images but a point of note is that some of the later serial numbered Mk5's had the Mk6 prop and spinner which is longer than the standard Mk5 (not by much but it is noticeable).

 

Hopefully Chris Thomas (Mr Typhoon and Tempest), will be along soon to help you out.

[PeteRBarkeR]

Thanks Wez.

 

I may have to ensure I make an early one since I've already assembled and painted the airscrew....

[Wez]

4 minutes ago, PeteRBarkeR said:

Thanks Wez.

 

I may have to ensure I make an early one since I've already assembled and painted the airscrew....

 

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as just say all SNxxx serialled aircraft had this and NV/EJxxx serialled aircraft had that.  For instance the photos of SN261 and SN290 definitely have Mk5 props and spinners, whereas SN326 has a Mk6 and SN354 appears to have a Mk6 spinner and prop (it's a bit hard to tell with SN354 as the photo is taken from aft looking forward looking over the starboard wing).  Unfortunately, the pictures aren't mine to share.

 

The picture of SN354 is interesting because it shows that the panel with the raised fairings over the cannon breeches were retained.

 

I don't have time to go down to my references right now but one of the books in my library has some extract from the A.P regarding the drogue gear, I'll be able to have a look tomorrow if nobody else comes forward with the information in the meantime.

[PeteRBarkeR]

You're a gent, sir.

[Wez]

Pete, this book is your friend as it shows some of the AP extracts for the TT fit.

 

Unfortunately, it's out of print but as it's a recent book there should be some kicking around.

 

Regards

 

Wez

[Truro Model Builder]

The 4+ publication on the Tempest is also worth searching out.

 

[Wez]

11 minutes ago, T7 Models said:

The 4+ publication on the Tempest is also worth searching out.

 

 

Agreed, as is Tempest by Tony Buttler published by Dalrymple&Verdun but the only one to provide anywhere near any detail on the TT fit is the Franks book.

[PeteRBarkeR]

Found one on EvilBay. Many thanks.

 

[gingerbob]

One comment about that Pakistani Fury- a superficial investigation shows two two-seater images with K__ serials, and the single-seaters with L__ serials.  I'm not confident that this was the rule, but if so, that would make the above TT a single-seater.

 

Hmm, Airfix Sea Fury, I might have a (newly re-discovered) plan for you...

 

bob

[Troy Smith]

On 7/4/2014 at 00:58, Troy Smith said:

Hi Stephen

never occurred to me! Interesting thought, hard to tell from this photo, though IIRC two seat Furies/Sea Furies have longer tail planes.

Just paste in the URL for the link, even if it does not 'link' the it's possible to cut and paste it into browser address bar.

cheers

T

EDIT PS

got me pondering, via google books I found a partial online version of Kev Darling's Sea Fury book.

L973 is listed in the PAF page 128

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-IdNAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PA122&ots=BtqbPKXpFO&dq=hawker%20sea%20fury%20serials&pg=PA128#v=onepage&q=hawker%20sea%20fury%20serials&f=false

Quote

Quote

L964 to L973 were WE775 to WE784, built as FB11, [see page 122]

 

Apparently the PAF only got 5 T.61's, though book seems to list 6

Quote

T.61, K850 ex Iraq contract, K851-K854, K858 was VX305

 

Apparently the PAF only got 5 T.61's, though book seems to list 6

I don't know if this is correct or not. But if so, L973 is a FB.60.

hopefully others will know more.

 

 

I presume the post above got skimmed over

11 hours ago, gingerbob said:

One comment about that Pakistani Fury- a superficial investigation shows two two-seater images with K__ serials, and the single-seaters with L__ serials.  I'm not confident that this was the rule, but if so, that would make the above TT a single-seater.

 

Hmm, Airfix Sea Fury, I might have a (newly re-discovered) plan for you...

 

bob

 

 

but it's a good question which wpuld useful to get a definitive answer for...