Johnny Red Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Hi guys I've just read that we are having trouble with the American ITAR (international Traffic in Arms Regulations) for them (like me ) who did'nt know who they are,ITAR controls, as well as separate policy concerns, have hampered international co-operation in development of the F-35 Lightning II (JSF ) The Clinton administration promised the UK that an ITAR waiver would be given, allowing greater technology transfer associated with the project, Yet, despite the backing of the Bush administration, the waiver has been repeatedly blocked by U.S. Congressman Henry Hyde because of his security concerns about potential technology transfer to third countries, Well, I wrote of to defence industry daily and asked them, if we drop the F-35 program what was Britain's alternative aircraft, they replayed. Britain did, The Plan B was France's Rafale, since the CVF and PA2 carriers are being handled as a joint project. But it would have required modifying the British ships to add steam catapults, and the British would rather wait for EMALS which is much less bulky and less of a maintenance hog. Britain has signed the JSF production arrangements MoU, and is fully expected to sign the F-35B contract. well guys what are your thoughts on this, I personally like the F-35 but is it worth all this hassle. MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angels49 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Shhhh.......Keep this vewy, vewy, quiet. Slip the bugger a mil euro's and watch how fast he changes his mind . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 If it's the same Henry Hyde (the Republican Congressman) I'm thinking of, he died on November 29 so maybe we might get a different result if it comes up again. I seem to remember he had some dodgy financial dealings and was the only congressman to be sued for negligence in a Savings & Loan scandal in the 80's or 90's. I'm not sure but I think he's the bloke who cost the US an export sale for F-22's with Japan because of tech transfer reasons. If the US dosen't want to transfer certain technologies how are you supposed to repair a plane that gets shot up in a fight? Do we have to crate it up and send it all the way back to the US? It seems kind of silly to me that we've spent God knows how many millions on the plane without knowing everything about the project. Maybe we should buy a navalised version of that new Japanese stealth fighter project (wouldn't be VTOL but looks very cool!). Personally I would have preferred BAe to have built the P1205,1214 or 1216 or even the AV-16. Much nicer looking designs and they didn't need the extra complication of the F-35's lift fan that seems like it's just a dead weight when not in the hover. Pau Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Red Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 Greendragon that's my point, it sounds to me that the US don't want us to be able to upgrade our f-35s forget the fact that we help build it, and as for repairs they probably want us to pay them to come over here and do it, and would someone please tell me what the hell this means and this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Got to agree with you there Johnny Red, the US will be more interested in all the years of maintenance and upgrade work being done by their companies rather than us doing it ourselves. If I was in Government I'd want every single detail of a plane (or any other equipment) before I'd pay any company a penny for it. Have the carrier designs been set yet? Last I heard they couldn't even decide how many islands were going to be on them and ours were supposed to have at least one catapult for an E2C Hawkeye capability and possible operation of other navies (French/US) aircraft. Not sure about Antoines rolling eyes Smiley, maybe it's an "I told you you should have bought Rafale's" kind of thing! The popcorn Smiley is usually like "watching with interest" or "waiting for a familiar argument to kick off", at least that's how I use it! Paul Harrison Forgot to add Merry Christmas to you mate, and everyone else!, on my last post. BTW Just last month someone in the Government was trying to cancel the two new Carriers but realised several hundred jobs would be lost in Gordon Browns own constituancy. They dropped the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSteve Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Got to agree with you there Johnny Red, the US will be more interested in all the years of maintenance and upgrade work being done by their companies rather than us doing it ourselves. Paul you hit the nail on the head, the potential money associated with the maintenance, spares and upgrade contracts over the service life of the aircraft is sometimes worth more to these companies then the actual cost of the aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Red Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 GreenDragon/ kiwisteve, its nice to find people with opinions like mine, what would you thick the implications would be if we were to take apart one of the F35 that we paid for and help too build, and then make the upgrades that we wanted, I image a court case, but surely they wouldn't have a leg to stand on seeing how both Clinton & Bush promised greater technology transfer. what does all this say about us and our Allies. Kiwisteve that Photo isn't you is it mate, good night out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 The French will be happily throwing Rafales off the front of their new carrier years before we manage to chuck anything off ours. My money is on our carrier being equipped with a last gasp extension of the harrier because of the cost over-runs and delays of the F-35B, IF they decide to let us play with their toy in the end. F111 anyone? Best Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I'm just waiting for the complaints to start once it gets into service!!! Remember how it all kicked off with the F/A-18 having poor range and no lifting capability and that it was poorer that the aircraft it was replacing? So much so that they had to re-design the whole thing to come up with the super-bug? Well this poxy JSF thing is going to be just the same...all that dead-weight lift fan it's carting around everywhere, all the time...this kind of thing has been tried before and has always failed...so what makes them think that this one is going to be any different? I actually hope that it turns out to be the dogs danglies for us all...but I just don't see it yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Isn't it just the Software source code thats being contested?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Red Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 Guys why does it all ways seem to be us , why can we not get these things right surely we have people that can go out to all these weapons manufactures and find the best kit for our boys, I can remember my brother in-law complaining about the reliability of the SA80 when it came out, the problems with the Typhoon with the cost increases and delays, am sure you all can add to the list, and now this. Am I alone in thinking some times we need too look further than our American friends for a better deal, or at least read the fine print some times when going it to these multinational deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entlim Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 We should have developed the FA2 into it's next phase in the first place , say no more..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Red Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 We should have developed the FA2 into it's next phase in the first place , say no more..... . WOW and a Merry Christmas to you too entlim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entlim Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
model_madness Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 (edited) Kiwisteve that Photo isn't you is it mate, good night out Not sure, but its obscene and disgusting nevertheless! I didn';t really need to see that first thing in the mornin'! Edited December 17, 2007 by model_madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 The problem I've got with not having access to the source code is that there could be a cut-off code, some kind of logic bomb or a virus embedded in it that shuts the plane down if you do something like go to war and the supplier doesn't agree with you. I know it's kind of paranoid but I'm damn sure I wouldn't want to be flying around quite happily and some jerk in a bunker presses a button and suddenly everything shuts down! Paul Harrison Paranoid? Me? Nah! I KNOW they're all out to get me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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