Tamiya 1/48 Lancaster

[Iain Wyllie]

I recently dragged out my half built kit with the intention of finally finishing it and started to check what looked like strange errors in the cockpit and floor area.

The enginerrs panel had always looked too big, the forward end reaching the engineers folding seat, so I scanned and scaled up to 1/48 the "Equipment Location" drawing that appears in the manual and also in the endpapers of the "Lancaster at War, Vol. 2. This drawing appears to be quite accurate, certainly accurate enough to show up errors in the kit.

First thing I checked was the engineers panel and, as I suspected it is far too big, some 7 scale inches too wide and 8" too deep. Other discrepencies now became very clear, the pilots seat in the kit sits too high above his raised floor but only slightly too high compatred with the top of the cockpit side wall. A quick comparisoon with the drawing shows that the entire cabin floors in the kit is a scale 8" too low, also making the bomb bay 8" too shallow - hence the too small 4,000 lb. bomb supplied. The control column is placed to far forwrd in relation to the pilots seat, unless, of course, the RAF had been secretly training gibbons as pilots.

The entire interior has errors, big and small, the two pillars are lcated too far forward, as is the navigators chair, which is also too tall. The radio is twice as deep, front to back, as it should be - correcting this and repositioning the pillars gives the navigators table a bit more space on top. Etc., etc., etc.

The main problem is how to correct the floor height. I am considering cutting off the side pieces, attaching them to the fuselage sides and then mounting the floor at the correct height, 8" futher up the fuselage sides - shouldn't be too difficult and will have the double advantage of making the cockpit interior look correct and giving the correct depth inside the bomb bay.

Most people won't consider the fairly easy modifications worth doing but, for those going to the trouble of adding detail, say from the Eduard interior set of pe, also their bomb bay set will find it worthwhile. BTW, the Eduard set is full of errors, and does not correct the engineers panel size, for example, most of it being lipstick on a pig, but some of the etched parts for the cockpit are useful. Having already used the Belcher engines and scratch built a lot of corrected detail and improvements, like thinned trailing edges, etc., I feel that I can't let the cockpit and floor errors go uncorrected.

With regards to the interior it brings a new meaning to the code letters provided with the original kit - P-OS being one option!

Edited August 27, 2011 by Iain Wyllie

[Troy Smith]

HI Iain

very interesting points!

Apparently another problem is that the fuselage is not 'egg' shaped enough.

In short it should be more bulged at the base of the fuselage, round where the bomb bay is.

Our favorite banned batty Gaston Marty was going on about this on another site somewhere (sorry can't remember where) though this time he said the shape error had been confirmed by someone at Tamiya. No mention of any of the points you have raised though.

I don't know if this is more insane rambllings of a kit butchering maniac but if not maybe of use to this thread.

Be interesting to see if raising up the bomb bay /floor widens the fuselage slightly.

HTH (and is not complete b*llcks, my apologies if it is)

T

Post Script - had a search...interestingly this was buried in a piece about 1/48th Horsa gliders on an armour forum!

http://www.network54.com/Forum/433829/thre...Horsa+you+say...

and this is what Gaston says,

From the mouth of Mr. Tamiya himself (not me), the fuselage cross-section is wrong and is lacking an "egg like" taper..

There is more in the link, including at the bottom a colour pic of a Lancaster II....

Edited August 27, 2011 by Troy Smith

[Iain Wyllie]

Hi Troy,

Thanks for the input and the link.

<< Apparently another problem is that the fuselage is not 'egg' shaped enough.

In short it should be more bulged at the base of the fuselage, round where the bomb bay is. >>

There may well be some slight difference in the fuselage cross section but it is not noticeable enough on the finished model with the bomb bay doors open to worry me greatly. Looking down the inside of the kit fuselage and comparing it with a photo looking aft down the real fuselage shows that there is no great deal of difference in section..

<< Be interesting to see if raising up the bomb bay /floor widens the fuselage slightly. >>

No, moving the floor up will not spread the bomb bay - in fact I will have to reinstate the width of the floor with strips on each side, due to having cut off the outer edges in order to add them to the fuselage. I think that widening the bottom of the fuselge would not be worthwhile in any case, since adding a strip between the halves would emphasise any flatness on the bottom. It would also necessitate different thicknesses of strip, tapering to zero at the nose and tail in order to fit the nose blister and rear turret.

The good thing about raising the floor is that it is relatively simple to do and kills two birds with one stone, namely, making the cockpit area the correct depth and, at the same time, that of the bomb bay. - both much more visible than any real or imagined minor inaccuracy in the fuselage cross section.

[Chris Preston]

Happy New Year Everyone,

 

I have Tamiya's Lancaster in my stash and am contemplating a start on it in the near future, with Belcher Bits Cowlings, Eduard P-E (and yes - I'm aware the Flight Engineer's Panel is too large. I'm working on a solution for that.), and the excellent Master Models Brass .3030 Browning Barrels.

 

In doing my research on the numerous excellent articles on the Lancaster on Britmodeller, one of the major corrections to the kit is to raise the entire Cabin Floor (and the Bomb-Bay) to it's correct height, which shouldn't be a problem. One of the contributors to this thread has posted two different heights that the Cabin Floor should be raised to - I'm not sure which is the correct figure. The first figure given is that the Bomb-Bay/Cabin Floor needs to be raised a scale 8" - which matches the SAM Publications Lancaster Mk I  1/48th scale plans I have. In another article by the same person, it's stated that the Bomb-Bay/Cabin Floor should be raised by a scale 11-1/2". 

 

Which figure is correct?

 

Cheers,

 

Chris Preston,

Victoria, BC,

Canada

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

My two cents on this if i may. Tamiya designed and built this kit close to if not 40 years ago. I built it 30 years ago myself. In the 1970’s concern when designing a new model wasn't with exact measurement’s. Back then it was more does it look the part and/or is it close enough. Tamiya’s legacy of shake n bake accurate kits wasn't in existence. Just something to think about.

[Troy Smith]

23 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

In the 1970’s concern when designing a new model wasn't with exact measurement’s. Back then it was more does it look the part and/or is it close enough. Tamiya’s legacy of shake n bake accurate kits wasn't in existence. Just something to think about.

 

I think there was interest in getting kits right even by the late 60's,  Monogram moved from moving parts to  scale  models then,  and some are still dimensionally good now, eg 1/48th Hawker Typhoon and I beleive the Airacobra,  but there certainly was more art than CAD about the  process then.   Airfix consitently upped their accuracy standards during the 70's as well.

 

But I also have a 1975 Scale Models magazine with a  letter from Iain Wyllie making the same points.  (accquired after this postings above, and I was  amused to see the points raised then!)

Iain is a noted aviation artist BTW

https://ospreypublishing.com/iain-wyllie

not just  random kit basher. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Chris Preston said:

The first figure given is that the Bomb-Bay/Cabin Floor needs to be raised a scale 8" - which matches the SAM Publications Lancaster Mk I  1/48th scale plans I have. In another article by the same person, it's stated that the Bomb-Bay/Cabin Floor should be raised by a scale 11-1/2".

 

I'd think the 8 inch dimension is  more likely if it matches the  plans,  but you could PM @Iain Wyllie  or maybe he'll get this notification and chip in.

A simpleway to check would be to get the depth of the bombay at the front or rear,  maybe email the Nanton Museum and ask? 

http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/

or use it as an excuse for a visist?   I know, it's along way from BC...

 

Or ask here?

 

HTH

T

 

 

[Chris Preston]

Thanks Troy and Corsairfoxfouuncle,

 

I've actually been to the Nanton Museum several times now, including when they were running up two of the four Merlins - needless to say, as the Museum's in the middle of town - all traffic stops when that happens. It's a site (and sound) like no other. I'll drop Iain a private e-mail for clarification.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris