FRADU Hawks to be replaced..

[J35 Draken]

I guess some of you may have seen this over on UKAR but I thought I'd post it here as it's pretty interesting anyhow.

Rumour has it that FRADU will replace the Hawks, which are nearing the end of their fatigue life, by the Hunters operated by HHA. Nice!

[AnonymousAA72]

I guess some of you may have seen this over on UKAR but I thought I'd post it here as it's pretty interesting anyhow.

Rumour has it that FRADU will replace the Hawks, which are nearing the end of their fatigue life, by the Hunters operated by HHA. Nice!

Funny how things that go around...erm come around!!! Didn't the MOD turn down offers for privately owned ex RAF/RN Hunter's from Kemble/Exeter(?) years ago for this role?

[Gary West]

Didn't the MOD turn down offers for privately owned ex RAF/RN Hunter's from Kemble/Exeter(?) years ago for this role?

I think your right, but with our defence budget beggars can't be choosers these days. By the way, anyone heard anything more about the PR.9s doing MOD work?

[KiwiSteve]

That would be cool to see these old girls getting a new lease of life

[paul_c]

that would be very cool. my hangar and pan is a stones throw from FRADU's. getting bored of seeing Hawks all the time......

[Bennygman]

Sounds like 'Cobham formation' could be extremely interesting next year!

Steve.

[dahut]

That would be cool to see these old girls getting a new lease of life

Im all for old girls getting a refresh!

But what do all the acronyms mean?

UKAR =

FRADU =

HHA =

MOD =

[Richard E]

Im all for old girls getting a refresh!

But what do all the acronyms mean?

UKAR =

FRADU =

HHA =

MOD =

UKAR = UK Airshow Review

FRADU = Feet Requirements and Direction Unit - they provide target facilities for the Royal Navy

HHA = I think it's refering to Hawker Hunter Aviation: they operate a fleet of retired Hunter jets from Bournemouth Airprt

MOD = Britain's Ministry of Defence

[PHREAK]

I think your right, but with our defence budget beggars can't be choosers these days. By the way, anyone heard anything more about the PR.9s doing MOD work?

I had a chat with Glen at Kemble t'other day. Apparently, the Canberras won't be doing any MOD work....red tape...blah, blah. A private sale for one of them didn't go ahead so all three are still sat there with an unknown fate.

So sad.......

[Hurrinut]

HHA = I think it's refering to Hawker Hunter Aviation: they operate a fleet of retired Hunter jets from Bournemouth Airprt

HHA is Hawker Hunter Aviation, Mike Potulski's operation and they are based at Scampton with 12 ex-Swiss AF Hunter F58s. 2 Hunter T7s, a Buccaneer SB2 and a Sukhoi SU22.

It was loosely connected to Old Flying Machine Companys jet operation. I think the Hunters orignally came via OFMC.

http://www.hunterteam.com/main.htm

Edited January 4, 2008 by Hurrinut

[Tim]

Having spoken to HHA's boss this week, there's no official word on the rumoured replacement of the Fradu Hawks as yet I'm afraid. That's not to say that it won't happen though, but so far, all the gossip on web sites is just that.

[dahut]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Gary West]

I had a chat with Glen at Kemble t'other day. Apparently, the Canberras won't be doing any MOD work....red tape...blah, blah. A private sale for one of them didn't go ahead so all three are still sat there with an unknown fate.

Yeah that is a big shame. Hope they find a good home at least.

[AnonymousDFB1]

If memory serves me (which it often doesn't nowadays) didn't hunters used to do this job?

[J35 Draken]

If memory serves me (which it often doesn't nowadays) didn't hunters used to do this job?

Indeed they did! Best looking Hunter's there are too, IMO.

[Motty]

HHA is Hawker Hunter Aviation, Mike Potulski's operation and they are based at Scampton with 12 ex-Swiss AF Hunter F58s. 2 Hunter T7s, a Buccaneer SB2 and a Sukhoi SU22.

What is the situation with the Buccaneer and Su-22? Are they going to be operated / flown?

Cheers,

Motty.

[J35 Draken]

What is the situation with the Buccaneer and Su-22? Are they going to be operated / flown?

Cheers,

Motty.

The Bucc's being restored to airworthy condition and hopefully should be flying again one day. Not too sure on the Su-22, it's in good nick but dunno if it's taxiable.

[Motty]

The Bucc's being restored to airworthy condition and hopefully should be flying again one day. Not too sure on the Su-22, it's in good nick but dunno if it's taxiable.

Thanks Dean.

Cheers,

Motty.

[Tim]

Last I heard, they were waiting for some work (and paperwork) to be done re- the Buccaneer's seats, but they were still planning to fly it. There's never been any news on the Su-22 although it seems the aim is to have the aircraft available as a supersonic target facilities aircraft, should anybody require one. Not quite sure what the CAA's view would be on it though, but in principle I would imagine they'd refuse to certify it, unless they're particularly confident in HAA's track record. Even so, I think it's unlikely that they'd give approval without design authority from the manufacturer, and I can't imagine Sukhoi would provide that unless they were offered a hefty amount of cash. Think the Sukhoi's presence may actually just be a leftover from the original set-up with the Hanna's, etc.

[Dave Fleming]

Last I heard, they were waiting for some work (and paperwork) to be done re- the Buccaneer's seats, but they were still planning to fly it. There's never been any news on the Su-22 although it seems the aim is to have the aircraft available as a supersonic target facilities aircraft, should anybody require one. Not quite sure what the CAA's view would be on it though, but in principle I would imagine they'd refuse to certify it, unless they're particularly confident in HAA's track record. Even so, I think it's unlikely that they'd give approval without design authority from the manufacturer, and I can't imagine Sukhoi would provide that unless they were offered a hefty amount of cash. Think the Sukhoi's presence may actually just be a leftover from the original set-up with the Hanna's, etc.

But they could operate it (as with the Hunters and, I presume, the Buccaneer) on the military register if required for MOD work.

[Tim]

...well no, not unles the CAA give it certification, and they like to wrap themselves up in red tape as we all know. The Sukhoi would be classed as a "complex" aircraft, probably because of the reheat system, and they would probably want Sukhoi to accespt design responsibility, and I'm sure that ain't gonna happen! My hunch is that the miserable CAA will refuse to certify it if HHA ever try, but you never know - there was a tale that the CAA had actually thought about certifying a Jaguar, but I suspect that they never had any real intention of giving the go-ahead.

Personally, I'd put the whole lot of 'em up against a wall and shoot 'em - buch of self-appointed, self-important beaurocrats. I mean, what on earth gives them the right to judge that a Lightning can be safely operated in the US or SA, but is too risky to operate in the country where it was designed, built and flown? What a stinking insult to British industry and technical knowhow! Grr!

Edited January 16, 2008 by Tim

[Dave Fleming]

...well no, not unles the CAA give it certification, and they like to wrap themselves up in red tape as we all know. The Sukhoi would be classed as a "complex" aircraft, probably because of the reheat system, and they would probably want Sukhoi to accespt design responsibility, and I'm sure that ain't gonna happen!

Would that not only apply to what used to be known as COMR (Civil Owned Military Operated) rather than former COMA (Civil Owned Military-type Aircraft)?

I admit I have no specialised knowledge of this beyond what I have read (and a couple of conversations), but it is possible for a civillian owned aircraft to be on the Military register without CAA approval/oversight.

Check out the Def Stan covering this:

http://www.dstan.mod.uk/data/05/122/00000300.pdf

Examples in curent use may be BAESYSTEMS at Warton's PC9s

Edited January 16, 2008 by Dave Fleming

[Tim]

I don't know either how the CAA would view things. It's an odd sort of situation I guess - a former military aircraft operated by a civilian company under contract to the military...hmm...

I'm just inclined to follow the lessons of history and assume that as ever, the CAA wouldn't entertain the notion of a Su22 flying around the UK, regardless of who might technically own or operate it. We're talking about people that can't even bring themselves to permit a Shackleton to fly!

[markc]

...well no, not unles the CAA give it certification, and they like to wrap themselves up in red tape as we all know. The Sukhoi would be classed as a "complex" aircraft, probably because of the reheat system, and they would probably want Sukhoi to accespt design responsibility, and I'm sure that ain't gonna happen! My hunch is that the miserable CAA will refuse to certify it if HHA ever try, but you never know - there was a tale that the CAA had actually thought about certifying a Jaguar, but I suspect that they never had any real intention of giving the go-ahead.

Personally, I'd put the whole lot of 'em up against a wall and shoot 'em - buch of self-appointed, self-important beaurocrats. I mean, what on earth gives them the right to judge that a Lightning can be safely operated in the US or SA, but is too risky to operate in the country where it was designed, built and flown? What a stinking insult to British industry and technical knowhow! Grr!

Sorry for asking a dumb question but do the CAA have any say as to what is permitted or certified in the US, would that would not be the FAA and I would have thought the two would have been completely separate organisations, but I stand to be corrected.

[Tim]

Yes, the FAA is completely separate to the UK's miserable CAA. Life's much easier in the US because they have a very convenient "Experimental" category that the jet warbirds (and other stuff) nicely fit into. Needless to say, in our green and pleasant land of Health & Safety (and mindless beaurocracy), no such categories exist for us.