Airfix new tool airliners

[Kev1n]

....Nor is it a joke....

I was thinking about approaching Airfix with some marketing and promo ideas for airliner kits.

Since they re-released the 727 (with wrong fuse title decals for Iberia) and the 737, both old moulds with some inaccuracies,

I was thinking - would they re-tool OR add new sprue parts to existing kits where applicable,

if they felt the market would be strong enough?

I know there is a perception that "airliners dont sell" but there are reasons for that; address those and they might sell better

So give me your thoughts and ideas.....(not just a "wants" list please !!!!....I already know what most people say they "want"

but improvements and/or additons to existing kits and if you think it's needed (as it is with some) complete new tools for kits,

plus some thoughts on marketing and selling them - lets see if myu ideas and yours are similar

then I'll go see airfix and proposition them.....

oh yeah...and dont forget the cost factor in new stuff - keep it realistic

thanks!

[cuprar]

Great idea Kev

[Kev1n]

apart from it being a great idea....I was hoping for somethinga little more...er....constructive.....

[bexwh773]

Ask if theyd kindly re work their old airliners for a start...... 707,737, 747-100, L1011..... you know, so they actually fit without any battering. For a new one, how about a DC8

So, go for it Kev, great idea

Bexy

[cuprar]

apart from it being a great idea....I was hoping for somethinga little more...er....constructive.....

Ok then FILL the DOORS lol

[bexwh773]

Ok then FILL the DOORS lol

Oh and Kev, you could ask them to go and actually look actual airframes and not guess like they usually do

Bexy

[smeds]

Make them in 1/72 scale !!!

And yes, I'm serious

[richellis]

1/144 bristol britannia. There. Civvy, and military.

DC8

Bexy

Minicraft!

[thx6667]

....Nor is it a joke....

I was thinking about approaching Airfix with some marketing and promo ideas for airliner kits.

Since they re-released the 727 (with wrong fuse title decals for Iberia) and the 737, both old moulds with some inaccuracies,

I was thinking - would they re-tool OR add new sprue parts to existing kits where applicable,

if they felt the market would be strong enough?

I know there is a perception that "airliners dont sell" but there are reasons for that; address those and they might sell better

So give me your thoughts and ideas.....(not just a "wants" list please !!!!....I already know what most people say they "want"

but improvements and/or additons to existing kits and if you think it's needed (as it is with some) complete new tools for kits,

plus some thoughts on marketing and selling them - lets see if myu ideas and yours are similar

then I'll go see airfix and proposition them.....

oh yeah...and dont forget the cost factor in new stuff - keep it realistic

thanks!

I think the first thing I'd ask Kev is what/who the market is. Product ideas are fine but first you have to determine whether there is a market for it.

[richellis]

Oh, and lets get them to re-tool the airliners, to production standerd! The 1-11 is prototype, while they are at it how about some fuselage plugs? Wing tips, and hush kits. To be fair they could just do it as an extra sprue (nose, fuse pluge, wing tips and hush bits)

Trident, how about doing a T3 from the box?

Tristar, scrap it, hire some divers and locate the missing Otaki tooling from Tokyo bay!

747, lets have a good classic jumbo

737, do Adv engines.

DC-10, how about an MD-11 conversion? ie the DC-10 with the additional bits for the MD.

Enough for ya?

[Dave Fleming]

In terms of add-ons, 4C wing tips for the Comet would give the option of a lot more colour schemes than the 4B and give the option for some military options at a much lower cost point than the Welsh equivalent - but I'd love to see a new tool Comet 4/4B/4C kit!!

[thx6667]

By way of a head start the entire civil aircraft range in the 2011 is just three aircraft - so the next question would be that is down to a lack of product not stimulating interest, or a lack of interest not stimulating product?

[Kev1n]

^

that one first -

I think it's a combo of the two...hasnt seemed to stop revell tho'. RV has a good range of Airbus products, which are pretty accurate, even tho' they're a nightmare to put together.

Marketing/Interest is not helped by the fact that, as rich says, airfix had an irritating habit of releasing their airliners originally either as soon as the prototype was rolled out - like the BAC111 - or basing them on artists publicity drawings - liike the 747-100/200...

so (imho) althought the narrowbodies arent too bad ( with some big reservations) the widebodies are way out in a number of areas

some of the range could be helped hugely by an additional sprue - the 737 for a start, again as rich says, with advanced pylons and engines, or 4C wings for the comet.

Jonathan - I think the first thing I'd ask Kev is what/who the market is. Product ideas are fine but first you have to determine whether there is a market for it.

Since there is an increasing number of airliners seen on club display tables - and not just the airliner sig - it suggests there is.

However....

Cuprar - Ok then FILL the DOORS lol

No

Thats part of the problem - the term "Travel Agents Models" is often used to describe airliners because.....

thats how almost everybody builds them.

There's no problem with that, if that's how you want to do them, your model, build it how you like.

but what's the standard for military models?

1) buy kit

2) buy a/m parts

3) build with some detail

So ask yourself - what if....afx had released them to begin with with interiors, cockpits, etc.....and some ground eqiupment?

The usual build method would be different.

For example -

fighter aircraft - did anybody (apart from Hasagawa) ever release a kit without underwing stores?

airfix sure as hell didnt....

so there's a few thoughts....

change the perception of airliner modelling.....and the variety and accuracy of the product and see what happens

discuss please....and I'll put something together and go see airfix

(they arent far away from me after all )

Edited August 5, 2011 by kev1n

[GreenDragon]

Cheapest option is to release multiple kits with different decal optioned boxes like Minicraft do but I agree totally with Richellis's list of fixes (especially the BAC 1-11!).

I'd like to see the Vanguard out again and the old Tristar and 747 need new moulds they need a hell of a lot of work to look right.

How about bringing back the A300B with Aerocondor Colombia decals? They didn't have it for long but it's a looker! Or maybe a Pan Am, Eastern & Continental boxing?

Availability seems pretty bad for the airliner kits to me because everytime I try to get any no-ones got any in stock! I've never actually seen the Vanguard in person and I've modelling for about forty years!

Paul Harrison

[Kev1n]

actually the BAC111 *could* be built just as it comes....provided....it is finished in British United delivery colours or...

Braniff's early 60's colours - before they went multi-coloured.

and I have pics of both to prove that they did fly in those colours - not that the aircraft stayed in the prototype config for long

but they did at least start thier days with both airlines that way

"Cheapest option is to release multiple kits with different decal optioned boxes like Minicraft do..."

which doesnt solve the problems, either with the kits or selling them in enough hnumbers to make repops worth doing

"....but I agree totally with Richellis's list of fixes"

exactly

altho' add-on parts for a DC10 to make an MD11 might be more of a problem, there are so many differences between the two types

Some of the kits could be serioulsy enhanced with add-on sprues thats for sure, but others really need a new tool version

Edited August 5, 2011 by kev1n

[richellis]

DC-10 to MD, not that hard.

[thx6667]

Jonathan - I think the first thing I'd ask Kev is what/who the market is. Product ideas are fine but first you have to determine whether there is a market for it.

Since there is an increassing number of airliners seen on club display tables - and not just the airliner sig - it suggests there is.

You're trying to gauge a mass market item from a niche segment - a few model shows do not paint anywhere near an accurate picture or reflection of the complete market. For example, if Argos sell x-thousands of a certain kit, but you've only seen a small handful at shows, would you you then deduce that it indicates poor sales?

Ask yourself, why would retailers want to stock an item? To whom are they selling? If there's one thing show like Dragon's Den have proved over the years, just having an enthusiast idea is one thing, you have go back and work out whether it is practical and practicable.

I'm not knocking your observations but they're just one piece of the jigsaw and there are 999 other pieces that need identifying before you get to see the whole picture.

[richellis]

Come on. Nobody seriously expects it to happen. Its more of a wish list.

BUT>>>

I do hope kevin hits Airfix with our feelings. There are some good ideas. Not for a second do I believe any thing will change, nor will the Airfix 2012 cataloge be full of these airliners. Only in my dreams.

[GreenDragon]

Forgot to mention being very shocked at the price jump in the 727 & 737 reissues. Got one of each but if they'd been their usual series 3 I'd have bought more. Last Pan Am 72 boxing I got for a fiver last year off ebay. I tend to buy mostly Revell and Minicraft civil stuff because they are actually available in the shops and I really miss the days when you could go into Woolies for kits! God I'm old!

Paul Harrison

[Alf 64]

Airfix have a good back catalogue, subject wise, it looks like most builders on here either have, or would have, several Airfix releases if readily available.

Cost wise they're very competitive, look at the cost of Skyline, Authentic, Contrails and Welsh etc. I know you're paying for limited run or resin with these guys, and least they're reasonably accurate. But who else is out there with the same kits as Airfix at a similar price?

It would appear that Airfix believe that there is a market for their civil kits, or why re-release the 727 and 737?

Having said that, and having just finished their "new" 737 release, and having a VC-10 in the to do pile (I note the date in the VC-10 wing is the year of my birth! ) it would be very much appreciated if I didn't have to almost double the cost by having to use AM engines to get something that matches the real thing.

For my money update what they've got, then look at new toolings.

Mind you I agree with Rich above, Airfix will take no notice.

[Viking]

Interesting subject.

I'm not sure that I can see a major manufacturer like Airfix turning to new tool airliner kits of 60's & 70's subjects, much as I would like them to. However, I agree that I am not sure what comes first here, Demand or Supply.

I would think that there would be a broader market for them if they were to produce models of the sort of thing that kids fly away on their holidays on, something like a Thomson 757, Jet2 737's etc. Lord knows we need a decent 757. This way they could appeal to the 'kid' market, while entusiasts would buy the kits to use with aftermarket decals. I don't see much point in new tools for the Airbus range, Revell have that covered. Even 737's are not too badly covered.

The gaping hole is the aforementioned 757. It also has the possibility of being issued in different markets with more local decals to suit that market.

As for re-release/updates, I would have thought that there was some mileage in re-releasing some of the older classic kits with modern quality decals in 'Classic' schemes. The Comet, Trident, and Vanguard could be done in BEA red square & Speedjack versions. The 707 & VC10 (tanker moulds perhaps re-revised with solid windows) in BOAC colours.

The Comet, Caravelle, and 1-11 are tidy enough mouldings that could perhaps benefit most from a bit of 'jiggling' (Even a 1-11 500 in the same way they stretched thire 727-100 into a 200) A tidied up 707 with a new sprue of alternate engines & fins for the 'serious' modeller could possible sell well, and at a premium price.

I'm sure that Airfix can do something, they seem to have the best management they've had for years, and have produced some great surprises recently.

Here's hoping, and good luck to you Kevin,

John

Edited August 5, 2011 by Viking

[Hepster]

Airfix airliners might sell better if they offered a military option where possible, and featured it in the box art.

Imagine an RAF Tristar, or a DERA BAC 1-11, or an RAF Comet.

This would have the benefit of making the kit more saleable as well as more available for civil aircraft modellers.

On the same lines, how about a new tool Boeing 737 with alternate parts/decals for a P-8A?

[bexwh773]

Just a thought carrying from Hepster, how about an extra sprue in a 707 for an RC or KC 135? Now that would be very nice

Bexy

[GreenDragon]

Excellent point on the holiday jets Viking, some friends went to Spain on a Britannia 757 and wanted a good kit of it but couldn't afford the Welsh kit and didn't like the Minicraft for some reason. If Airfix did start doing new airliners the 757 is where I'd start, BA red tail and Eastern Airlines for the first boxing please! Think they were the launch customers? Next box Britannia and Air Europe/Air Europa and then Icelandair and Greenlandair.

Paul Harrison

[thx6667]

It would appear that Airfix believe that there is a market for their civil kits, or why re-release the 727 and 737?

There's no doubt there is a market, but two airliner kits in a range chock full of dozens of military aircraft, AFVs, figures and ships kinda puts it all into perspective.

Plus we're back to the reality - for every kit company - that stuff only gets dropped if the sale aren't there. Two airliners out of a range that used to feature a couple of dozen suggests its less a will or ability to market them, but just a lack of market full stop.

I'm not trying to poo poo the idea, but this is all basic marketing 101 stuff - you have to identify a demand, then refine it to what kind of product would meet that demand.

Or to use a more basic metaphor, its like deciding on wallpaper before you've even built the walls or even know how many there are going to be and how big they are.