GreenDragon Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Thanks for posting that resin TSR.2 Dave, I'd never heard of Tokiwa Aircraft Create before so I had quick look around at about 4A.M. this morning and found some crackers from them. You won't believe what they've been making!(A certain Cold War DH Navy jet anyone?) Listed as Japanese market only though. Here's a Linky http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~tac1991/144top.html Does that stuff look very cool or What!! I 've been after the RF-4X (Mach 3 Recon Phantom on super steroids for those that don't know about it!)for many years. On the subject of the Mossie I'd love to have it but I just don't have the room for something that big! I've got two 1/24th Harriers plus a SHAR and a P-51 that are still on the to do pile because I can't put them anywhere. I'd probably still get one though! (I'd definitely buy a 1/24th Argentinian A-4 Skyhawk and Mirage series to go wth the Harriers hint-hint) I just hope the Valiant, 48th TSR.2 and Mossie aren't going to be on this damn limited edition crap. I was trying to get a 72nd TSR.2 for more than six months before release and I still haven't seen one in the flesh! I like to go into a shop and buy stuff off the shelf. Paul Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Roberts Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Interesting..... Considering a rumor was around of Trumpeter doing a 48th TSR-2 as well as all of the 32nd RAF (Bucc and Jag) and 48th FAA jets (Gannet - I know not a jet! and Scimitar) from earlier this year. I now cannot place if these rumors were before or after the Hornby news broke. My biggest gripe....no new Tornado in 48th! I'm still on the prowl at shows over here in the States for the GR-1 kit to get The weapons and then the Italeri kit to use them on. If only we had a RoG or...Airfix Lightning quality...or Trumpeter quarter scale Fin (notice I didn't call it a Tonka!) I'd be a happier modeler in 2008/09 Wonder which variant of Mossie in 24th, B IV or FB VI? Does this mean the other rumored 24th kit...the Gladiator may actually exist? Now if we here in The States could only hear of a similar rebirth of Accurate Miniatures or that Revell is going to do new mold aircraft again Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 With modern measuring and analysing technology no kit is safe from counterfitting, they dont need the original cad files. The sprues can be 3d scanned and reproduced into a cad file and then the tooling created. The problem now though is that China has caught up with the wests manufacturing technology and with labour and overhead costs so small, they can create anything at a minimum of the cost we can. So counterfitting a kit would cost them 5p in tooling and a massive profit per kit, with no risk of being caught. Why dont we stop buying these kits, and protect the companies like Hornby that are creating new designs and keeping the hobby going forward. The problem there is that Hornby are contracting these Cinese companies to produce their new designs..... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Interesting.....Considering a rumor was around of Trumpeter doing a 48th TSR-2 Well, aren't Trumpeter doing the tooling for the Airfix Nimrod? And there have been rumours of Trumpeter doing a 1/48 TSR2 for a while. And we've already seen shots of a 1/48 TSR2 by Airfix - the original master, before the 1/72 kit was released, for some reason this is always done in a larger scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Jiff Kenobi Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 Well, aren't Trumpeter doing the tooling for the Airfix Nimrod? And there have been rumours of Trumpeter doing a 1/48 TSR2 for a while. And we've already seen shots of a 1/48 TSR2 by Airfix - the original master, before the 1/72 kit was released, for some reason this is always done in a larger scale? Apparently the masters are made larger, then pantographed down in size when the moulds are cut, because this enables them to get more and finer detail on the model than if the masters were made actual size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchet Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 I 've been after the RF-4X (Mach 3 Recon Phantom on super steroids for those that don't know about it!)for many years.That looks a whole lot like it's an Israeli F-4E(S) Peace Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 1/24th Mossies bloody typical I finish my Heritage kit and along they come just like busses. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) Apparently the masters are made larger, then pantographed down in size when the moulds are cut, because this enables them to get more and finer detail on the model than if the masters were made actual size. That's old technology Jeff - in the past kit parts were made in large scales in wood then pantographed down - there is a shot of a large Hurricane fuselage in one of the Airfix books IIRC. These days, the 'masters' are all done on computer, and the 'test shots' done on a 3D printer using a form of resin - so they set the printer to 1/48th scale for the first tests as these bigger parts are easier to work with and check fit (allegedly!!) For the final moulds you set the milling machine to 1/72..... Edited December 7, 2007 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) That looks a whole lot like it's an Israeli F-4E(S) Peace Jack. The RF-4X was a part of the joint Israeli/US Peacejack programme but the furthest it got was a partial mockup that was mounted on one side (starboard I think) of an ex IDFAF F-4E by General Dynamics. It was designed originaly to carry a podded HIAC-1 camera from the SR-71. With a max speed of Mach3.2 and cruise speed of Mach 2.7 (and retaining its gun and missile capabilities) it was seen by the US State Department as too much of a competitor to the F-15 programme, which was beginning at that time, and it could also be a threat to the Blackbird. Because of this, and the technology transfer issues, the Americans withdrew from the project. While this was happening the HIAC-1 cameras had been made in smaller, lighter versions and General Dynamics redesigned the RF-4X to remove the radar and gun and put the HIAC-1 in a new nose. Because the weapons had been removed the US returned to the project and this was the configuration of the mock-up: new nose in what looked to me like Plywood, new advanced variable intakes and paper mache water tanks. High rankers in the USAF and State Department decided it was still too much of a threat to the F-15 programme so the US dropped the program again. Israel still wanted to have the HIAC camera operational so the Peacejack conversion was considerably lowered in capability and cost and became the F-4E(S). If you take a look at the intakes on the model they are vastly different to normal Phantoms and the huge conformal tanks on the upper fuselage were for the water injection/coolant system that was designed to give a 150% increase in thrust at high altitude. HTH Paul Harrison Edited December 7, 2007 by GreenDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Hornby must be brave if they want to finally do the big Mossie. I'm sure it would be very nice but that's gonna be an expensive kit and it's certainly not going to appeal to many casual buyers or kids. I sure wouldn't want to buy one and all my modelling colleagues just glaze over at the idea too. Look at their big Harrier - didn't exactly set the world on fire and that was a Harrier for heaven's sake! Maybe the new Mossie rumour is just an urban myth that's come from the original plan which resulted in the 48th Mossie kit? Not sure about the Valiant either. When I first heard about this I thought it was an odd choice. I'd love a nice Valiant kit as would lots of people, but commercially, you have to wonder how many people would be interested enough to buy a relatively big and obscure kit like that. Kid's wouldn't have a clue what it was and the only good way to make it look exciting would be to put a Grapple test painting on the box top but of course they wouldn't be able to do that. Oh well, good luck to them if they do go ahead but blimey, talk about taking a walk on the wild side! I would have thought they'd opt for some guaranteed sellers like their 48th Canberras to start off with. Looks like there may be some very interesting times ahead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Roberts Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Would a $60 kit like the Canberra (here in the States) be a guarenteed seller if we are worrying about getting newbies interested in modeling? Would a new 48th scale kits of current RAF/FAA types be more to thier likeing, and yes I include the Harrier GR-1/3 and SHAR in that listing of 'current' kits aircraft wise. Is thier business model now trying to prove to those of us serious hobby guys that Airfix is a brand name we want to seriously look at again after being unimpressed for a decade or more (post Spit 24/Lighting era nirvana) or appealing to the newbies out there who see the word Airfix and either think back fondly on the name or maybe even have kits that will appeal to the pocket money market. Does Hornby/Airfix look at the Revell Germany model of relatively inexpensive kits or the Asian companies such as Trumpy as being the future? That is only based on price, not quality or perceved accuracy of the two lines kits. What would a guarenteed seller be in the market place today that is not already the domain of another brands catalogue? Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Jiff Kenobi Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) That's old technology Jeff - in the past kit parts were made in large scales in wood then pantographed down - there is a shot of a large Hurricane fuselage in one of the Airfix books IIRC.These days, the 'masters' are all done on computer, and the 'test shots' done on a 3D printer using a form of resin - so they set the printer to 1/48th scale for the first tests as these bigger parts are easier to work with and check fit (allegedly!!) For the final moulds you set the milling machine to 1/72..... I'm used to model making from a more civilised age, not as clumsy or random as a computer... Well, in my defence, I do come from a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away! Thanks for the update, Dave. It's nice to know how these things are actually made. Edited December 7, 2007 by Obi-Jiff Kenobi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Roberts Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Do you think Airfix/Hornby will focus on the English market only with the new subject choices or will they look to a wider world market? I was thinking about the year end wish lists that float around now - versus the wish lists that we post the rest of the year! - and I notice that a new 48th Sabre series that covers the F-86A and F-86E seems to be desired by alot of people. If Airfix would/could do those at the quality of the Lightning (or current Trumpeter kit standards!) would that be welcomed or would that be viewed as a bad marketing idea for a British company? Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousER99 Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Dumb question time..... Does anyone know if the new moulds and sprues are being done in the UK or will they be farmed out to Korea?? Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Well in that money programe about Airfix shown tonight, Trevor was filmed measuring up a Seaking. Hope it just wasnt for the camera!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Do you think Airfix/Hornby will focus on the English market only with the new subject choices or will they look to a wider world market? Matt Matt, Don't you mean British market Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinners Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Do you think Airfix/Hornby will focus on the English market only...Matt I sincerely hope not. The other British nations might just feel left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinners Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 That 'Money Programme' was good wasn't it? Nice to see Trevor Snowden. Fingers crossed for the company! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Roberts Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Matt,Don't you mean British market Stephen So I just inadvertantly insulted all of the IPMS Scotland members who are lurking around here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) So I just inadvertantly insulted all of the IPMS Scotland members who are lurking around here? Just the English one's and they'll be back when the lease is up. Stephen Edited December 7, 2007 by Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 The moulds are done in China. Korea is so 90s....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousER99 Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 The moulds are done in China. Korea is so 90s....... come on now Graham...isnt Korea where Academy is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 So I just inadvertantly insulted all of the IPMS Scotland members who are lurking around here? What!! We let the sweaties have their own IPMS??? How did they extract the membership fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDragon Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 A crowbar to the Sporan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entlim Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Well in that money programe about Airfix shown tonight, Trevor was filmed measuring up a Seaking.Hope it just wasnt for the camera!. CANBERRA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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