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1/350th Ark Royal IV proposal


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#1 Neil Lambess

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 09:07 AM

Im aware that quite a few of us ( including a non ship modeller like me ! ) have always wanted a 1/350th kit of ARK ROYAL IV in 70s configuration

for me it was the Airfix kit i hoped for in the summer of 1976 whilst watching her star turn in the BBC show SAILOR ....and i still WANT ONE !

the thought struck me tonight that with a good set of 1/350th CAD plans a certain resin kin manufacturer in the far east could easily print a set of master patterns out and produce a kit fairly cheaply.

the has already been a precident for this as anybody who owns an ANIGRAND IMPERIAL STAR DESTROYER kit will tell you ,( the Star destroyer being the famous ship from STAR WARS episode IV )
ANIGRANDS model was about 2 1/2 feet long and had an incredible amount of superfine detail , (due to exactly the form of CAD printing im suggesting) most of the detail on the kit is actually duplicating original plastic warship details scaled down even further than the actual kitset parts..... (the original filming miniature been kitbashed from many battleship models in the first place)

Anigrand produced this in a limited run of 100 copies and sold them for around $150 US dollars (or possibly $200 i can remember and i bought one) so it was clearly cost effective for them and there was a thread about this kit in the SF section on Britmodeller....

The main thing is a 350th ARK ROYAL would be a far simpler kit to design than the STAR DESTROYER as it has much much less surface detail, the tricky bit would be finding a good CAD designer to do the wireframe model so that it could be printed out on a 3d printer and then cast in resin (as are a lot of recent ANIGRAND kits)

so my CRAZY idea was that if enough of us expressed an interest in a resin kit at around the $150-200 US mark we would only need 100 of us to sign up and make it cost effective...(as per the STAR DESTROYER) Anigrand are already producing aircraft kits for what was NOSTALGIC PLASTIC and the CAD designed spacecraft resin model genre is very big internationally (as a visit to the starship modeller forums wil show) if nostalic plastic can produce 72nd scale MERCATORS via anigrand and turn a profit on them then a group collective of us could do the same thing (and keep the costs down )

or the trick would be to get a manufacturer to approcah a company like anigrand based on initial intrest expressed on here. and subcontract them to produce it.(or maybe it could become a britmodeller moderaters sceme? _ that way once a firm quote came back from the manufacturer then the idea could be floated (pun intended) and confirmed orders taken and the kit produced and distributed via britmodeller or a friendly retail outlet on here? (somebody who takes paypal tho please ! )

what do the rest of you think?

a poll could be easily set up on britmodeller to guage numbers.....

any CAD designers out there? any good sets of plans for the ark?

#2 bootneck

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 09:16 AM

Hi Neil,

the first thing you would need is a full set of plans of Ark Royal IV.

I scratchbuild model ships and I've been looking for a set of those plans for 20 years without success; I've even searched the IWM plans site.

There are models of the ship in her old configuration, without angled flight deck etc., but I have not seen a 'proper' set of plans for the modernised ship of the 1970's configuration.

Good luck with this

Mike

#3 SkippyBing

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 10:00 AM

the first thing you would need is a full set of plans of Ark Royal IV.


There's the rub. I modelled Ark IV for MS Flight Sim and all I had to work from was a plan of the flight deck someone had kept all these years, it was a ******g nightmare, I must have hundreds of photos now which I used to try and figure out what was supposed to go where and I'm still not convinced it's that accurate.

Having said that, there is software available that lets you build up a 3d model by referencing common points across lots of photos from multiple angles, I think the license is a bit expensive though.

#4 Neil Lambess

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 12:02 PM

There's the rub. I modelled Ark IV for MS Flight Sim and all I had to work from was a plan of the flight deck someone had kept all these years, it was a ******g nightmare, I must have hundreds of photos now which I used to try and figure out what was supposed to go where and I'm still not convinced it's that accurate.

Having said that, there is software available that lets you build up a 3d model by referencing common points across lots of photos from multiple angles, I think the license is a bit expensive though.


Hey man I think I found your flight sim version on the net tonight haha I was just going to mention it but you have beaten me to it...,( if its yours it looks pretty good to me)

thats not good news about the lack of any plans.....having said that the flight deck was tthe signifigant structural change so maybe they could be mated to the earlier fit plans? (hmmm)

#5 SkippyBing

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 02:50 PM

Probably mine, although there are three versions of it out there as I upgraded it as I learnt new stuff!

I have a feeling plans wise that there may not have been a complete set drawn up of her final state but that you'd need the original plans and those drawn up for the various refits. Alternatively the internal plans used for fire-fighting, damage control, actually getting somewhere might be provide a decent basis to work from if they can be found.

I know bootneck has mentioned the IWM but Greenwhich Maritime Museum and the FAA museum might be worth a punt if no ones tried already.

Certainly I know a few people who'd be interested in a kit including myself.

#6 Mark

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 09:40 PM

I'd buy one.

#7 Vlamgat9

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 10:11 PM

I'd buy one too.

I can't believe the plans situation can be that problematic - it's 1/350 we're talking about not 1/24??

#8 bootneck

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 10:51 PM

I'd buy one too.

I can't believe the plans situation can be that problematic - it's 1/350 we're talking about not 1/24??

Ark Royal has quite a few differences to other RN carriers and loads of openings and overhangs which tend to be hidden/obstructed in photographs (mainly because everyone seems to have concentrated on the flight deck or radars).

If this was an aircraft model then I doubt if anyone would expect anything less than a thorough job on researching the dimensions correctly. So, why should we do anything less for a model of a warship?

Just take a look at past reviews of the Airfix HMS Illustrious as an example.

cheers

Mike

#9 The Velociweiler

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 10:54 PM

Just a different perspective.

I'm no stranger to scratchbuilding ships. How's about, 'Good enough is good enough'?

Name a traditional ship scale.

I can name you a kit in that scale which is 'officially' that particular scale, and is extremely popular, and that plenty of modellers will build that kit without the remotest question in their minds. But will remain comprehensively inaccurate in dimensions, or outline, or in specific detail.

So really, why worry?

Scratchbuild.

If you can build a model which more or less matches the photgraphic or illustrative references you already have, why wait for plans or a kit? The plans themselves could be wrong (it happens frequently) and the kit could be out in dimensions, accuracy or outline by a greater degree than you yourself could manage. My advice, just go for it. You could have your model easily by christmas, instead of impotently still waiting at christmas in five years time for a kit or a set of plans which may yet be five years in coming. It's fun. It's easier than you think and gives a greater degree of personal satisfaction. It will also be invariably cheaper, and will garner greater kudos and interest. Specific fittings, whether weapons, radar or other common items or sensors are invariably available in etch form. You just need the hull and the aircraft. You could produce the master of an AEW Gannet in 1:350 this sunday night. There is already a Bucc in the scale, a Wessex. A Phantom shouldn't be beyond conversion capability from the accessories available.

Just do it. If you have the space for a kit in the same scale, and assuming you already have the enthusiasm to tackle the subject, then the only thing between you and the finished model is time and materials.

Do it. You won't regret it.

Just my tuppence worth.

Edited by The Velociweiler, 04 June 2011 - 11:01 PM.


#10 Vlamgat9

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 09:30 AM

...

How's about, 'Good enough is good enough'?

Name a traditional ship scale.

I can name you a kit in that scale which is 'officially' that particular scale, and is extremely popular, and that plenty of modellers will build that kit without the remotest question in their minds. But will remain comprehensively inaccurate in dimensions, or outline, or in specific detail.

So really, why worry?

....

If you can build a model which more or less matches the photgraphic or illustrative references you already have, why wait for plans or a kit? The plans themselves could be wrong (it happens frequently) and the kit could be out in dimensions, accuracy or outline by a greater degree than you yourself could manage. My advice, just go for it. You could have your model easily by christmas, instead of impotently still waiting at christmas in five years time for a kit or a set of plans which may yet be five years in coming.
Just my tuppence worth.


Aye to that except don't have the time for the scratching so would be nice if Anigrand or the like could break the back of it for us! We will be here forever if we wait for a set of plans that everyone accepts as being accurate.

#11 Geoff_B

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 10:18 AM

I would be interested, but maybe you should have a world with Peter Hall of White Ensign Models fame as he scratch built it in 1/350th and created his own PE set which led him to creating all the WEM PE sets now.

One suggestion however see about doing it in 1/700 waterline scale first, it should be cheaper, the detail does not have to be a precise as 1/350th and it would give Arnold a better feel for the look and shape as the old fujimi kit could be used as a base model for the initial hull shape ?

Cheers

Geoff

#12 bootneck

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 11:16 AM

Hi Velociweiler,

when it comes to scratchbuilding, for oneself, then I am 100% with you on this because I believe not enough people try their hand at scratchbuilding. The few I've seen on this and other sites have looked very impressive indeed.

The point of my comments was that I was of the understanding that people were talking about making CAD drawings for a major producer such as Anigrand.
As resin models are so expensive, especially at 1/350 scale, would they make enough sales to justify their manufacturing costs for a 'good enough' kit?

I still intend to scratchbuild an Ark Royal but I still don't have enough 'below the flight deck detailed photos' to be able to make decent assumptions on dimensions. I, and I'm sure other ship modellers, would pay good money just for a set of Ark Royal IV plans

Cheers

Mike

Just a different perspective.

I'm no stranger to scratchbuilding ships. How's about, 'Good enough is good enough'?

Name a traditional ship scale.

I can name you a kit in that scale which is 'officially' that particular scale, and is extremely popular, and that plenty of modellers will build that kit without the remotest question in their minds. But will remain comprehensively inaccurate in dimensions, or outline, or in specific detail.

So really, why worry?

Scratchbuild.

If you can build a model which more or less matches the photgraphic or illustrative references you already have, why wait for plans or a kit? The plans themselves could be wrong (it happens frequently) and the kit could be out in dimensions, accuracy or outline by a greater degree than you yourself could manage. My advice, just go for it. You could have your model easily by christmas, instead of impotently still waiting at christmas in five years time for a kit or a set of plans which may yet be five years in coming. It's fun. It's easier than you think and gives a greater degree of personal satisfaction. It will also be invariably cheaper, and will garner greater kudos and interest. Specific fittings, whether weapons, radar or other common items or sensors are invariably available in etch form. You just need the hull and the aircraft. You could produce the master of an AEW Gannet in 1:350 this sunday night. There is already a Bucc in the scale, a Wessex. A Phantom shouldn't be beyond conversion capability from the accessories available.

Just do it. If you have the space for a kit in the same scale, and assuming you already have the enthusiasm to tackle the subject, then the only thing between you and the finished model is time and materials.

Do it. You won't regret it.

Just my tuppence worth.



#13 SkippyBing

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 03:01 PM

Incidentally, if anyone wants the flight deck plan I have drop me a PM and I'll send you a zip. It's three sheets in PDF format for reasons I've never understood so you'll need some minor photoshop skills to get a complete plan.

#14 bootneck

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 04:30 PM

Incidentally, if anyone wants the flight deck plan I have drop me a PM and I'll send you a zip. It's three sheets in PDF format for reasons I've never understood so you'll need some minor photoshop skills to get a complete plan.

Hi Skippy,

pm on its way

cheers

Mike

#15 HMS FALCON

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 12:46 PM

I bought a full set of plans from Greenwich Maritime Museum and have commissioned a 1/192 model of Ark IV in her latest form!

#16 Stealthman

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 09:01 PM

I'd certainly sign up for a a 1/350 Ark Royal IV. As for plans... try Cammell Laird for the original hull plans, then the Fleet Air Arm museum at Yeovilton for any additional info.

#17 rob kernaghan

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 09:33 AM

I built mine in 1/700 using the Fujimi kit as a base. You can see it on www.finewaterline.com

The NMM has a full set of plans but they would be expensive. even more so when you tell them it is for producing a model kit.

On the other hand - if you can get an idea of what the company would propose as a cost to produce a kit in 1/350 or 1/700 it would be helpful. If so, give me a shout.

rob_kernaghan@hotmail.com

Rob

#18 kspriss

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 04:03 PM

Incidentally, if anyone wants the flight deck plan I have drop me a PM and I'll send you a zip. It's three sheets in PDF format for reasons I've never understood so you'll need some minor photoshop skills to get a complete plan.


yes please!!

PM on way now

steve

#19 Phil Reeder

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:22 PM

Judging by this reaction to my thread ,
http://www.britmodel...showtopic=42930


I think if some brave manufacturer was to release a 350th Ark Royal IV from the 70`s,they would make a killing,and be laughing all the way to the bank.I ,for one would be delighted ,and part with my hard-earned cash to get one (or two).

Hopefully Phil

#20 Shar2

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:27 PM

Oh yes that would be a must buy, if it ever happened, and like Phil I'd probably get a couple. But then I'd also like a Colossus class from the 60's and Hermes in any or all of her guises.