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World War 1 colours, rigging and other random questions...


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After only building 1/24th scale aircraft I've decided to take the plunge and build a few World War 1 1/48th scale aircraft. I've always loved the look of old aeroplanes, but have been a little wary of all those tiny parts, flamboyant paint jobs, and intricate rigging. I must confess I'm a complete World War 1 novice, so the answers to some of my questions may seem a little obvious to those with a broad knowledge of the era, however I may as well ask, so...

Colours - to start I've bought myself a 1/48th Eduard Albatross DIII in Richthofen's markings for no other reason than that it is red, and red strikes me as a good colour for a bi-plane. The instructions specify various colours such as 'red', 'brown' 'green', but don't give much indication of hue beyond that. Illustrations in references are, for the most part, sepia tone photos or suspiciously recoloured drawings. I'm aware paint technology has come a long way, so were the colours of the day relatively muted? Can anyone point me at any sort of reference chart, or are most of the colours based on 'best guess' anyway? Do Vallejo or anyone else to a colour range for this era?

Rigging - what do you recommend for rigging wires in 1/48th scale? I assume the wires were very thin anyway, so how thick should they be on a 1/48th model? Also, how to you attach the rigging and get it straight / taught?

General Condition - I'm in the habit of painting little chips, exhaust stains etc., but given the lack of metal on a lot of these aircraft would they have shown signs of wear? In general, were the engines oily or kept clean?

More dumb questions to follow, thanks in advance for any pointers :)

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A couple of thoughts

Colours of the period can't often be much described more precisely than red brown and green in many cases. Even machines as well known as Richthofen's machines are often the subject of much debate among the cognoscenti. MisterKit do a range of WWI colours which can be found here

http://www.misterkitusa.com/index.html

Woodgrain

Start here for one technique; I'd be careful not to overdo the grain effects, what would be visible in 1/48 woudl be pretty subtle

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/woodgrainel_1.htm

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for rigging in 1/32 I use 2lb fishing line for 1/48 i'd get hold of either 1lb fishing line or still use the 2lb stuff.

On the wingnuts site there is a pretty simple woodgrain tutorial that I think is similar to the hyperscale one.

For weathering I keep it fairly light limiting to shadows on wings and such like.

If you pop over to a site like the aerodrome there is a much higher number of very good WW1 builds than here as that site is dedicated to that era where you can harvest all the good tips, I know I do.

WNW got me into WW1 and now I find nothing else interests me so be warned.

Edited by gcn
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In 1/48th I use monofiliment thread, otherwise as invisible sewing thread, for rigging. I use clamp tweezers to keep the tension on the rigging as the glue dries. Any slack later on is sorted by taking a metal dental probe heated in a flame and then taking NEAR to the rigging. The heat causes the rigging to tighten in an instants

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So, you are thinking of coming over to the 'Dark Side', be warned, when once you are hooked there is no escape, as far as kits are concerned, WWI bipes are very small indeed, a 1/32 Albatros only has a wingspan of about 11 ins, as far as rigging is concerned I use 2lb monofilament fishing line attached with Bobs Buckles and tubing, Bob is a member of the forum and very helpful, I'm also adding a Linky to beeza1's web site, Des is also a member of the forum and it will pay you to have a look at his site, he gives a good number of builds and other useful info.

As far as colours go, I've also added a linky for a Misterkit colour site that gives different colours of aircraft, of course you don't have to use their colours but it gives a rough idea of what colours your aiming for. HTH

Des's Website

Colour Charts

Cheers

Pete

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Since you are starting, I'd also suggest a visit to a few wood flooring specialists - look at the colours of new wood.

Wood darkens with age and exposure to light. Too often, the models I see reflect the current state of flying, or museum, aircraft. In other words, the wood is dark brown, where it should be light, yellowish brown.

If you know the cutting list for a particular type, look for those woods, otherwise start with: ash (used in compression stringers and struts), beech and birch used in ply.

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Just go for it!!!! WWI planes are great fun The satifaction when you get a complicated rigging job finished and the whole thing "tightens up" :yahoo:

I just got my 9th 1/72nd stringbag finished today...and I´m well pleased..getting better all the time. :D

You´ll be looking up different colour schemes in no time :thumbsup:

Has anyone a "flashy" colour scheme for a Seimens Shuckert, either DIII or IV ??

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Your welcome...I hope you find something you like.

I have thanks. The Kit is a 1/72nd Toko one, two versions the DIII and the DIV...the lozenge pattern was giving me the trouble...not now ;-D

Edited by Paul RH
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This might help too-fabric surfaces have a sheen to them,not gloss or matt finish.There are differnt ways to do rigging,another way to that mentioned is to drill small holes right through the wings either side of the struts.Take a long length of your rigging wire and thread through like a cats cradle.This way you use the fewest number of pieces of rigging and it can be pulled tight too.It needs planning as to where the wire will go but works ok.Then fill the tiny holes left in the wings.

As for wear etc I think a general dusting and maybe a some dirty streaking behind the engine is all you need.I think these planes were kept quite clean-and probably didn't last too long before either being shot down or crashing!

Good luck with your build,I find WW1 a bit frustrating but very satisfying!

Mike

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Thanks for all the links and advice, guys. I really think these kits are going to be a challenge and I'm going to have to learn a lot of new painting and building techniques, which is all good really - to be honest the 1/24th kits were becoming a bit of a production line using the same set of skills. I'm really looking forward to pushing my own boundaries and hopefully making some nice builds in the process. Cheers!

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This might help too-fabric surfaces have a sheen to them,not gloss or matt finish.There are differnt ways to do rigging,another way to that mentioned is to drill small holes right through the wings either side of the struts.Take a long length of your rigging wire and thread through like a cats cradle.This way you use the fewest number of pieces of rigging and it can be pulled tight too.It needs planning as to where the wire will go but works ok.Then fill the tiny holes left in the wings.

As for wear etc I think a general dusting and maybe a some dirty streaking behind the engine is all you need.I think these planes were kept quite clean-and probably didn't last too long before either being shot down or crashing!

Good luck with your build,I find WW1 a bit frustrating but very satisfying!

Mike

I agree. To rig the 1/72nd ones I plan where I have to drill all the rigging holes, then I do the cats cradle thing with invisible mending thread. Where the rigging is attached to the fuselage I attach it before final construction, leaving a decent length so I can thread it later. When I´ve go the whole thing rigged (working from inside out) and it´s all glued tight, I tighten the rigging (if needed) using the lit end of a jos-stick. The actual rigging plan differs from plane tp plane and sometimes I´ll do half the rigging and then tighten it up before finishing. With this one I did a three stage rig.

Also the weathering...in 1/72nd its possible but I prefer the "factory fresh" look.

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General Condition - I'm in the habit of painting little chips, exhaust stains etc., but given the lack of metal on a lot of these aircraft would they have shown signs of wear? In general, were the engines oily or kept clean?

I'll keep my reply limited to this one question as I think everyone has answered everything else better than I could.

Condition of airframes could vary enormously. Somes factors include their relatively short lifespan- a matter of days in some cases. Conversely, nothing on the Western front stayed clean for very long. Another factor to bear in mind is how WWI aircraft weathered compared to later aircraft. Some features to look out for when 'reading' prototype photos include such things as- they're landing on grass/mud, or the fact that the early rotary engines threw out oil at an alarming rate.

One of the things that personally bugs me about WWI kits is the neccesity of using decals for the decoration. Decals often aren't the best way of protraying painted markings. Photos of WWI airframes often show very visible brush streaks or even earlier markings showing through.

Don't forget the air war in WWI was as wide ranging as the land campaigns, and aircraft sent out to the Middle East or up to the Baltic weathered very differently to the muddy Western front machines.

In terms of finding photos of aicraft- you might like to look at the Wingnut Wings website which has a lot of archive photos on it. Perhaps the best source for photographs of any given prototype will be the windsock datafiles, but you will of course become hopelessly addicted to WWI modelling (it's inevitable, sorry). When you do, get hold of the Cross and Cockade publications- you'll find enough to keep you interested in WWI aviation for a lifetime.

Will

Edited by Killingholme
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General Condition - I'm in the habit of painting little chips, exhaust stains etc., but given the lack of metal on a lot of these aircraft would they have shown signs of wear? In general, were the engines oily or kept clean?

What you have to remember is, that as regards to condition, in the German Jasta's, when a new aircraft was delivered the Jasta Commander, ie Von Richtofen, would have first choice, he had at least 3 personal a/c at any one time, if he wanted the new machine he would have it and pass one of his cast offs down the line, if he didn't like the new machine, his no.2 would get next refusal etc. etc., so if you were the 'rookie' or 'new boy' straight out of training you were probably flying some patched up old Pfalz or Rumpler whilst Von Richtofen was flying a brand new Albatros DVa and you had to wait until you had proved yourself and survived long enough to get a respectable machine. HTH

Cheers

Pete

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Good luck with your first WWI model. Im also hooked on them thanks to Wingnut Wings.

As for rigging them i glue fishing line to the top wing and then pul it through holes drilled all the way through the bottom wing before super glueing the line into place and trimming the ecsess.

Edited by ollieholmes
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Next question:

When colours were applied over the original (linen?) coverings, would the original coverings have been sealed enough to prevent the colour showing through on the inside of the airframe?

I don't know if this answers your question, this is a cockpit photo of an SE5a, although the outside was painted Olive Drab, the inside still appears as Clear Doped Linen.

7.jpg

HTH

Cheers

Pete

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You mentioned earlier that you were considering modelling German aircraft: If so, then bear in mind that the lozenge pattern was printed, and therefore showed through the material very strongly. This modern rebuilt Fokker D.VII illustrates the effect well. In smaller scales I have got good results by simply sticking the lozenge decals to the inside of the cockpit with the finished side facing down!

http://memorial.flight.free.fr/gallery/fokkerd7/co2.html

Will

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You mentioned earlier that you were considering modelling German aircraft: If so, then bear in mind that the lozenge pattern was printed, and therefore showed through the material very strongly.

But there again if you were modelling an Albatros, the body was made of plywood, so you wouldn't see any colour showing through, in the cockpit you would see a plywood finish.

Cheers

Pete

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