Revell BAe Hawk T1, Red Arrows

[Mr B]

Wow!

The pit and seats look like the real deal.......very classy and crisp work.........lovely

thanks for sharing

rgds

mr b

[geedubelyer]

Hello peeps, I can't thank you all enough for the warm encouragement Very much appreciated I can tell you. I'm thrilled you're enjoying the build so far.

jet-mech said:

i think i'll put mine in the bin now

...... better not mate or you'll get ..or.... .. not to mention ........ ......

XV571 said:

Does this help?

I'm thinking to use 3/8" plastic tube as the inside diameter will give the small lip seen in the photo. How do you plan to add the missing JFS intake grille on the right fuselage?

This is a fantastic build with lots of great tips; watching this with interest.

Great shot XV571. It's very hard to find a shot like that so much appreciated. I think you're spot on with the 3/8ths tube. I've had to use some brass that I had as I did n't have any plastic extrusion but the plastic would probably be better (and easier to work with. See below)

Shaun said:

Are you going to update the tail fillet area?

Shaun.

Hi Shaun, do you mean the fillets on the horizontal tail surfaces and their guides on the fuselage? If so then yes, I am planning a little tweeking in that area. Revell have posed the horizontal tails parallel to the ground but I have seen just as many images with the tailplanes drooped slightly making them parallel to the upper fuselage. I'd like to try to adapt the kit parts to give them that slightly drooped appearance. This will involve blanking off the slits where the tailplanes are mounted to the fuselage then drilling a suitable hole into the control surface and fuselage to allow me to tilt the tailplane a bit.

I'll add the fillet and fillet guides using thin metal foil. (hopefully... )

Mike said:

and it's surprising how little effort is involved, isn't it?

Absolutely Mike. I followed you advice on another thread and it worked like a charm. In fact, I'm getting carried away I've added some more rippling to the vertical tail and I'm planning on using the same technique on the intake trunking as well as the flaps. Too much? This Red Arrows Hawk might end up looking like it's ready for the breakers yard by the time I'm finished

With a lovely shot of the topside provided by XV571 I decided that the Revell "blow hole" is indeed a tad undersized. Now no-one likes an undersized blow hole so out with the rat-tail file.......

I enlarged the hole until it fitted the brass tube I had then formed a tube by cutting segments out of the tube and arranging them in an arc...make sense? No?...this pic should explain what I'm trying to describe \/

The reason for doing this is so to fill the gap. A straight tube would still allow the viewer to peer into the bowels of the beast

At least this way the hole is filled completely.

 

 

It does n't have to be too neat on the outside just so long as the inner joints line up reasonably well. It'll be predominantly black when it's finished so not much detail will be seen inside.

Here's a shot from further away to judge whether it improves things at all. (Sorry, I was so excited and revved up I set-too with the file and forgot to take a "before" shot).

 

 

The airbrake well is next and I've just finished painting it red (after taking ages getting rid of the red with primer . )

A couple of pipes and I can slot it in.

See you next time.

Cheers.

Edited November 25, 2017 by geedubelyer

[petetheplane]

Here are a few shots of the areas you are working on.

Hope they are of some use.

[xffw45343tg]

Turn the brass tube around so the inside open end faces forward.

Edit:

Strike that. I clearly couldn't see the pictures well enough on my Blackberry.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Kirk

[zero]

I've looked at this over and over.

I still can't believe it not a real seat/cockpit etc.

Dave (off to take up stamp collecting!, maybe I'll be better at that!!)

[periklis_sale]

amazing work mate!!

[geedubelyer]

Just a quick flyby to say thanks.

Here are a few shots of the areas you are working on.

Hope they are of some use.

Phwoar...stonking shots Pete. Many thanks mate, these'll come in very handy.

Turn the brass tube around so the inside open end faces forward.

Edit:

Strike that. I clearly couldn't see the pictures well enough on my Blackberry.

Hi Kirk, no problemo. It's my photography that is n't very clear, sorry. I'll be sure to keep the open end forward.

Dave (off to take up stamp collecting!, maybe I'll be better at that!!)

Cheers Dave, glad you like it so far.

amazing work mate!!

Many thanks Periklis. Coming from a bloke with your talent that's high praise indeed. Much appreciated.

I've discovered that the exhaust that I've so carefully adapted is actually slightly off-centre to the left on the real deal so it looks as though there is more work ahead. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers.

[Shaun]

Hi Shaun, do you mean the fillets on the horizontal tail surfaces and their guides on the fuselage? If so then yes, I am planning a little tweeking in that area. Revell have posed the horizontal tails parallel to the ground but I have seen just as many images with the tailplanes drooped slightly making them parallel to the upper fuselage. I'd like to try to adapt the kit parts to give them that slightly drooped appearance. This will involve blanking off the slits where the tailplanes are mounted to the fuselage then drilling a suitable hole into the control surface and fuselage to allow me to tilt the tailplane a bit.

I'll add the fillet and fillet guides using thin metal foil. (hopefully... )

See you next time.

Cheers.

No, not the tailplanes but the area above the exhust. Revell have provide both short and long tail fillets but the fuselage is the shape of the short early fillet. Late aircraft do not have a curve but a flat profile, because the area was built up above the jetpipe.

Have a look at these early and late photo's and you will see the area I'm trying to discribe.

Shaun.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Shaun

[geedubelyer]

Ah,...I see what you mean Shaun. I had n't noticed the difference So if I'm building one of the Reds in their current livery, I'll need to build up the tail to look like the colour photo, right? Many thanks for pointing out the difference, I appreciate it.

Another revelation occured earlier. Apparently, the exhaust opening that I'd so carefully modified is also offset slightly to port. This necessitated a quick and dirty session with some plasticard and a file. I also took the opportunity to re-visit the exhaust too. Looking at Peters' photo above it looks like I'd missed the actual exhaust pipe from my version. I've added it now leaving the original tube to form the recessed support for the pipe. THis is all just tacked together with blu-tack for now. I'll tidy up the opening properly before I install the exhaust for good.

 

Definately back to the airbrake well next......

Cheers.

Edited November 25, 2017 by geedubelyer
replaced lost image

[petetheplane]

Here are a few more detail shots of one of the Red's jets:

[Basosz]

This is stunning work! Absolutely fantastic. That cockpit is truly special. I simply cannot believe the amount of detail on it. I think you just became my new GOMS (God of Modelling Skills)

[Martian]

Awesome skills! You're making me feel a bit envious!

Martin

[Mark M]

just for ref this was taken yesterday the reds are getting dirty at the moment!

[Mark M]

[geedubelyer]

Great photos Pete and Mark. Thanks for posting these, they'll be very useful.

I'm guessing the Reds are getting dirty having to fly in such inclement weather. Where did you park to get these shots Mark?

Hello Basosz and Martin, many thanks for the kind comments. I'm glad you like things so far.

I had family commitments yesterday so did n't get to work on the airbrake as I'd planned. What I did do was install the intakes and their trunking so I thought one or two might like to hear my impressions.

Referring to the images I'll address my observations to the numbered arrows.

 

 

I found the fit to be generally good without too much need for hard work.

The lip at #1 is slight and should sand away with little effort.

The seam at #2 was good. The two parts joined with only a minimal seam showing. This sanded away easily and will require very little, if any, filler.

The seam at #3 is also good although it does appear heavier than it should when compared to the full sized aircraft. In fact, if I was n't planning on using covers I'd be inclined to fill this seam and the adjacent panel line completely.

 

 

One thing I will have to take more care with is removing the parts from the sprues. #4 shows where my sidecutters tore the plastic and left a slight hole which will require remedial work. I've found the plastic used by Revell to be more brittle than that used by either Tamiya or Trumpeter but it likes Tamiya thin cement and Revells' own contacta adhesive.

Arrow #5 shows where a mold line needs to be removed from around the very front of the intake lip.

 

 

The internal seam #6 was better on the left side than the right for me. I would n't wish to be reaching inside to fill and sand the seam though. It's a shame in a way because the remainder of the inside of each intake trunk is beautifully smooth in contrast to the slightly grainy surface texture of the rest of the model.

 

 

Perhaps the worst area of the intakes is the step between each side half at the front of the intake mouth #7. No matter how much care I took I was still left with a mismatch which would require sanding to shape then filling. Of course, I'm taking the cowards' way out by using scratch built intake covers but anyone showing the intakes in open configuration will have to use a little elbow grease to get the best results.

I hope these observations come in handy for anyone building this kit.

Cheers.

Edited November 25, 2017 by geedubelyer

[Tim T]

Brilliant work and a really informative thread. Thanks for the time and trouble you have gone to to explain everything. Stunning!

[Mark M]

hi mate i parked in the visiting area and walked along the fence to the crash gate

[redfoxy]

Great photos Pete and Mark. Thanks for posting these, they'll be very useful.

I'm guessing the Reds are getting dirty having to fly in such inclement weather. Where did you park to get these shots Mark?

Hello Basosz and Martin, many thanks for the kind comments. I'm glad you like things so far.

I had family commitments yesterday so did n't get to work on the airbrake as I'd planned. What I did do was install the intakes and their trunking so I thought one or two might like to hear my impressions.

Referring to the images I'll address my observations to the numbered arrows.

I found the fit to be generally good without too much need for hard work.

The lip at #1 is slight and should sand away with little effort.

The seam at #2 was good. The two parts joined with only a minimal seam showing. This sanded away easily and will require very little, if any, filler.

The seam at #3 is also good although it does appear heavier than it should when compared to the full sized aircraft. In fact, if I was n't planning on using covers I'd be inclined to fill this seam and the adjacent panel line completely.

[The seam at figure three should only be barely visible if at all. this line is where the skin sits on a buttstrap and fastened with a double row of rivets. when they go for paint the joint would be blended in, and filled in the paintshop to be sanded back to blend them smooth. Admittedly after a few flights the filler may crack and be visible but a new build seam may not show.Regards Paul.

see here for example.

http://motty.hobbyvista.com/Articles/Photo...ntake-01-01.jpg

[xffw45343tg]

While all the experts are watching, can someone tell me a little about this outlet? I assume it is the air exhaust from the air starter? Is the polished section attached to the engine access panel or to the engine itself? If it is part of the panel as the painted screw heads seem to suggest, how does it connect to the engine?

Fantastic work btw Geedubelyer. I'd never noticed the offset of the exhaust before you pointed it out. Are you planning on addressing the missing intake louvred panel on the starboard side?

[geedubelyer]

Hello folk, god morning.

Hi Tim, thanks for stopping by and adding your kind words. I appreciate your encouragement and I'm glad you're enjoying things so far, cheers.

hi mate i parked in the visiting area and walked along the fence to the crash gate

Hi Mark, thanks for that. I was n't aware that Scampton had a viewing area. Is that just north of the main gate on the A15?

[The seam at figure three should only be barely visible if at all. this line is where the skin sits on a buttstrap and fastened with a double row of rivets. when they go for paint the joint would be blended in, and filled in the paintshop to be sanded back to blend them smooth. Admittedly after a few flights the filler may crack and be visible but a new build seam may not show.Regards Paul.

Cheers Paul. That confirms my suspicions. I'm hoping that I can avoid having to fill that seam line (filling seams is one of my least favourite tasks...) by adding a semblance of cloth intake covers fashioned from thin metal foil. {~searches for "fingers crossed" emoticon~}

I'd never noticed the offset of the exhaust before you pointed it out. Are you planning on addressing the missing intake louvred panel on the starboard side?

Hi Kirk, we can thank Gabe Pincelli for pointing out the offset exhaust. He flies the US Navy Goshawks and kindly posted a couple of cracking pics over on ARC of the spine clearly showing the slight offset.

As for the missing panel (wonder why that got missed?), I've (rather roughly ) scribed one on mine.

I also added the thin fillet running longitudinally to both grilles.

Cheers for now.

[Brian G]

While all the experts are watching, can someone tell me a little about this outlet? I assume it is the air exhaust from the air starter? Is the polished section attached to the engine access panel or to the engine itself? If it is part of the panel as the painted screw heads seem to suggest, how does it connect to the engine?

Fantastic work btw Geedubelyer. I'd never noticed the offset of the exhaust before you pointed it out. Are you planning on addressing the missing intake louvred panel on the starboard side?

IIRC this duct is the exhaust from the LP Compressor bleed and from the HP Compressor bleed. In the LP compressor mode, air is ducted through the centre of the engine, around the drive shafts, to cool the engine and its bearings internally. In the HP Compressor mode it is used to cool the turbine blades. These two sources of air combine and are exhausted through this duct. We used to do a temperature check on this airflow, if the temperature was above a certain figure, (now forgotten), this was an early warning sign of an engine issue.

HTH. Cheers, Brian

[AnonymousAA72]

Some excellent work going on here!! Looking forward to seeing this progress....

[Iain Ogilvie]

Excellent stuff!

The pix/comments about the rear fuselage above the jet pipe are really useful and answer some head-scratching. Have just taken a few steps backwards on my build and corrected that.

Iain

[daz greenwood]

Some superb work going on here!

[geedubelyer]

Hello good people of Britmodeller

Bill, Iain, Daz, cheers guys. I'm grateful for the kind words and pleased you like what's been done up to now.

The time for closing up the fuselage is getting ever closer. I've added a couple of pipes within the front half of the airbrake well so that I could glue it in place but managed to get some black primer overspray on it so that will have to be re-painted.

Just as an FYI, very little detail can be seen inside the front section of the airbrake well so adding those pipes was a pointless exercise......

I did however manage to get one more job done today. I wanted to depict the tailplanes partially drooped in a similar manner to reference photos that I've been looking at. Revell have molded a beautifully fitting tab to the parts but that same tab poses the tailplane parallel to the ground. Not a problem as I've seen just as many refs showing the horizontal tails in that position, I just wanted to be a bit different.

The easiest way that I could think of recreating the effect was to lop off that lovely snug lug and fit a rod in its' place.

 

I blanked off the rectangular slot in the fuselage half and drilled a suitable hole to accept the rod.

Using this technique the tailplanes and fuselage can be painted seperately plus it is easier to add the "bacon slicers" and their guides.

With the rod fixed in place the tailplanes can be drooped to sit parallel to the line of the upper fuselage (yet to be modified). The green line gives an approximate idea of where the kit part sits.

 

 

Cheers for now.

Edited November 25, 2017 by geedubelyer