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Let me explain - besides asking on forum a day later I wrote PM to Kjetil. He was very kind and answer immediately. I appreciate his answer very much.  I apologize for introducing two way of communication here -  simply I wanted to get the answer because I am doing this model just now (with tread on WIP). The answer was that blades were bare metal on both sides, spinner in RLM2 (in all Norwegian He 115 of original purchase) and the canopy has this cut off on right side. My third question in PM was about the exhaust pipes which are absent in Revell kit at all. So answer is that they are always on right bottom sides of each engin in all variants of He 115. 

Best regards and again - many thanks Kjetil for your help

Jerzy-Wojtek

Edited by JWM
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You're right, Vingtor. Here's the answers I gave:

 

1. Norwegian He 115s had natural metal propeller blades (both sides) with spinner in RLM 02 (originally). This was kept throughout their carrier in Norwegian service. The exception is the two captured Luftwaffe He 115 Bs which were remarked and repainted in Norwegian colours (numbered 62 and 64). These two kept their original German colours on propeller blades.

 

2. Yes. It was there. Swedish and Norwegian aircraft had a somewhat different opening to Luftwaffe He 115s. I can send you a photo if required.

 

3. The exhaust was placed the same way on all he 115 variants, including the He 115 N. I think the photo you refer to showing something on top of the wing shows a venturi tube on top of the engine nacelle behind the engine, placed there by the RAF. Depending upon the quality of the image it may look confusing. You should not need to modify the exhaust system for a Norwegian version.

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Hi

I have next questions to Kjetil, if you can be so kind. When airplanes were in-field painted in April 1940 - what about canopy frames? Were they painted on left in original grey? Since props were left bare metal  I would not be surprised if they were left grey. BTW -Is  that original Norwegian grey a bit blueish, like Humbrol 128 perhaps? The other colours - the "new" grey tome on top (the base) I am supposing to be for example Humbrol 87 and the dark one is blueish grreen, like Humbrol 244? This set of colours is what I am thinking to apply but I am very intersting in your oppinion,

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek 

P.S.

My attempt to build Norwegian "52" in April camo is in WIP

All comments and suggestions welcome

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No problem caused at all, JWM!

 

Regarding your new questions we know that F.52 at first did not have its canopy frames repainted, but when that special scheme worn by that aircraft while it served in Western Norway was modofied somewhat, the canopy frames were also repainted. So, there are two slightly different variantions of this scheme, one with unpainted frames and one with (and a few other differences) I have profiles and camouflage schemes of both.

 

Material is much more scanty when it comes to No. 58 which also received an extra upper surface scheme. I have to check at work where I have my good phoot of this machine!

 

Regarding the colour scheme featuring on the He 115 Ns while in Norwegian service, it is a bit complicated. I'll also have to check my manuscript at work for a more elaborate answer on this one. A good friend of mine with years of experience working with photo interpretation and colour research has analysed the available photo and we believe we have found the answer.

 

Kjetil

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Kjetil, many thanks :)

I was only once in Norway, it was in June 2008 in Bergen. I remember the colours around... Since water reflects mostly colours of sky and (in case of fjord) banks the shades of grey are also important, besides green of course. I hope you will agree that water looks  lighter and more grey on the opposite to you side of wave and has deeper, more green-blue colour on side of wave facing to you. This is because of difference in angle of reflection. Obviously In fjord there are wery small waves only, therfore the size od spots on He-115 are also small. This is why I am thinking that base must be some blueish gray (perhaps with some  green shade) and the dark must be dark green-blue. I do not insist that I will do "N 52" - if you can share with some more photos or profiles how any other  one looked it will be very nice of you.   

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

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Hi again.

 

The coloration of the He 115 Ns on Norwegian service is complex. As I mentioned my colleague and friend Erik Pilawskii has analysed and written a treatise on their evolution. I have incorporated his essay into the book and I think the easiest way to answer your question is to give a sample of the profile pages for the Norwegian He 115s. I therefore present them here (sorry about the "sample" background, but its just in case someone is tempted to use the drawings themselves). 

 

These pages should give you an overview of how we bee live the six Norwegian He 115s were painted. Aircraft No. 60 would be similar to No. 58 (it is on a page detailing the two captured German machines).

 

Please note that the current drawing of F.58 with the appliqué camouflage is tentative and for illustration purposes only. It is very hard to deduce what its camouflage looks like but a better resolution image of the photo also reproduced below has surfaced, so I´ll make a new interpretation for the book in due time. Regarding our previous discussion about painting canopy frames, it seems to me they were painted on F.58 too, when it received the extra coat of an unknown colour on tiop of the existing one.

 

As you can see you have the choice of using either RLM 02 overall or the Cerric aluminium overall scheme if you choose not to do the greenish version of no. 52! Hope this helps.

 

F50-52_camouflage_zpsrwts0g6r.jpg

 

F52_camouflage_zps1sall2vd.jpg

 

F54_camouflage_zpsquotzgrj.jpg

 

F-58_camouflage_zpsmxw1ou3q.jpg

 

Kjetil

 

 

 

 

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Hi Kari. There is some information on the colours of Gladiator 433, but they were not similar to the ones of He 115 no. 52. I cannot remember exactly what the new colours used on the Gladiator were, but I think they involved a grey and a kaki colour. Nils probably has more info available.

 

Kjetil

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Kjetil, your book will be really a "musthave" item!  When it will be available?

Those illustrations looks great. Many thanks!

However for me the strange double strip on top of right  side of fin looks to me still like an overpainted (partially) national Norwegian insignia. Perhaps planning flying to Scotland somone add national markings in such unusual place to make more pronaunced national colours on machine?

Some stains on the end of fuselage - before rudder could be remains of neutrality yellow band overpainted now with dark colour perhaps?

This camo looks really very interesting... BTW - I have a photo of Hover MF 11 with some in field camo which also looks very temptaing. Perhaps this will be my next work (I have Broplan vacu of MF 11 in stash) :)

Many thanks again for your help

Cheers

J-W

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9 hours ago, Kari Lumppio said:

Hei Nils, Kjetil and others!

 

Would that two greens upon grey go also for the Norwegian Gladiator 433? I have seen green and brown suggested.

 

Cheers,

Kari

 

Gladiator 433 was apparently painted in Italian colours - paint delivered with the Caproni Ca.310 aircraft.

 

Nils

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Glad I could help, J-W. I am not sure exactly when the book will be published, but the final draft is getting quite close nowadays. We decided to use a slightly different lay-out than originally planned so now I have to convert all the pages, but that is part of the fun! Be sure I´ll announce it on this website when it is ready!

 

You could be right about the makeshift attempt at a non-standard national insignia on the fin, but on balance I doubt it as they did overpaint the regular markings (except the bottom part) and  would probably want to be as inconspicuous as possible when they sneaked into British airspace. I don´t think there would be any remnants of overpainting of the neutrality markings either, but the choice is yours!

 

Interesting that you have the Broplane MF 11. If you really want to make a model of that aircraft I´ll make you a deal. I´ll donate my started Chorozy MF 11 resin kit to you so you can finish it. I have assembled the fuselage and lower wings but nothing else. It is a wonderful kit but a biplane which quite frankly scares me as a modeller ( I just cannot do rigging!) and I have not dared trying to finish this one. Let me know what you think.

 

Kjetil

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Kjetil,

I propose another deal - you may send your MF11 to me and I will do riging with EZ (it is really relativly easy with this media) and will sent you back for your finish :) .

BTW - I met few times Mr. T.Choroszy in person and have his mobile number in my mobile...His manufacure/enterprise is few kilometers apart from my house....

Cheers

J-W 

 

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7 hours ago, Kjetil Åkra said:

I am not sure exactly when the book will be published, but the final draft is getting quite close nowadays. We decided to use a slightly different lay-out than originally planned so now I have to convert all the pages, but that is part of the fun! Be sure I´ll announce it on this website when it is ready!

 

Kjetil,


Please do let us know when the book becomes available.  I know I want a copy...so if you're taking pre-orders, sign me up! :)

 

Cheers,
Mark

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On 31.1.2017 at 6:26 PM, JWM said:

Kjetil,

I propose another deal - you may send your MF11 to me and I will do riging with EZ (it is really relativly easy with this media) and will sent you back for your finish :) .

BTW - I met few times Mr. T.Choroszy in person and have his mobile number in my mobile...His manufacure/enterprise is few kilometers apart from my house....

Cheers

J-W 

 

 

That's a deal! But don't worry, it will be a while before I complete it. Other projects have intervened and I am an extreme spur-of-the-moment kind of modeller!

 

If you talk to Mr. Choroszy again please tell him that is kits are absolutely stunning and a delight to work with.

 

Kjetil

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Kjetil - hope to made my MF 11 soon to get practice how riging goes exactly on this type :) . I've looked on photos and riging is not only between wings but also between wing and floats.

The technology which I am use to do is: 1. drilling small opening (drill ~0.5 mm) in places where riging comes. Important - it is good to paint in final colours the areas (or just spots around) just after drilling, afterwards the riging block/unables proper painting (I will call it "a pre-paint" of some areas). 2. Gleueing whole construction (wings, fuselage, floats, tail etc. - all structure of model). 3. "Sawing" riging with EZ  and CA glue.

4. Filling and sanding spots on back sides of riging openings (sides on top and bottom of wings mostly). 5. Finishing the model - final paintings on sanded area or whole top and bottom sides of wings. . What I propose is that I will do for you step 3 and 4. Is it OK? 

Regarding Mr Choroszy models I am also very deeply impressed by his models and his great success. He is cooperating with a lot Krakow's modellers who prepare for him moulds. Once I had offert from him - when I  constructed my Kaproni Bulgarski KB 11 Fazan and shown it on a model exhibition in Krakow's museum of aviation he proposed that on basis of this model he will do moulds. But it will required either total destruction (cutting into pieces) of model either doing it  aging. I did not decided.  My Brother was working with him preparing many painting schems and instructions. Here is quoted above KB 11 if you would like to see it:

Regards

J-W

 

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JWM, thanks for your tip regarding rigging. I´ve purchased some very fine line specially made for digging some time ago so I´ll probably try it on a model at some time, but certainly not Chorozy´s MF 11 first! That kit deserves better than my fumbling hands when it comes to rigging!

 

And I was very impressed by the Fazan-kit. That certainly shows skill!

 

Also congratulations on finishing the He 115. 

 

Kjetil

 

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Kjetil - many thanks again, and if you'll change your mind the MF 11 rigging offert is still valid. You are right - the regular plastic (styren) kit is better for trials.  Fiat CR 42, CR 32 or Fokker CV - they have  very limited riging, good for start...

Cheers

J-W

 

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  • 1 year later...
  • 2 years later...

Dear all. Since this thread mentions the He 115 book I and some colleagues are working on and which have not been heard of for some time, I'd like to provide a short update.

 

I apologise for the delay, this was due to some illness and covid and a busy schedule at work and in what they call Real life, for some reason!

 

But, now the manuscript has been prepared for publication, proof reading is underway and best of all, a publisher has been found and agreed upon. More info will be released when I have it. It will be released in a not too distant future.

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

Kjetil Åkra

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Hi Kejtil,

in "that other thread" (now locked)

we may read "I will refrain from commenting on your remarks regarding the PH-method as that was not my responsibility during our research, but I will comment on this:"

so, with all due respect and trying to be as polite as possible, may I kindly ask you to ask the gentleman who did the PH-testing to explain the method to us in case you meet/talk to him? Thanks!

 

To me it seems a bit odd to measure the PH of an object that was covered by sea water for so many years and I didn't quite unterstand the white-spirit passage.

 

I'd rather try to dissolve the paint in order to get a clue regarding the binder. The phenolic resin base (expected in old RLM paint) would probably not dissolve at all, but maybe that paint #6 mystery bright green would be soluable in "Methoxypropanol PM" (Propylene glycol methyl ether) but not in white spirit (or other "regular" paint solvents). In a second step I might try to heat / burn some of the paint to observe its bevahior (binder and pigments)

 

The report I'm talking about: https://heinkel115.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Rapport-fra-Kjetil-Aakra-he115_paint.pdf

 

I'm trying not to mock anybody, I'm trying to understand.

 

(and I am not saying a single word about RLM 83 or 84!)

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