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Handley Page Heyford camouflage


XF442

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Hi all,

my first posting on this forum. I hope my following concern doesn't put you off to much, however ... ?

I'm currently working on Matchbox' Handley Page Heyford kit, which is going to be the Mk.III version. The instructions depict the aeroplane in green / earth camouflage, but I am a bit unsure about that paintwork. Let me explain:

The instruction want me to paint the undersides in the same green as on the upper sides. Why that? IIRC fresh from factory all Heyfords sported NIVO paint over all, so I guess at a certain time (Munich Crisis?) they will have been camouflaged locally. I wonder, when applying dark earth / dark green on the upper surfaces, why not being consequent and apply "night" black to the undersides as it was standard on all other RAF night bombers? OK, the Heyfords were nearing the end of their operational use, so why bother the correct underside colour? But in this case - why paint the underside dark green then? Retaining it in NIVO in my opinion would have been much more consequent and less laborious.

Going one step further - apart from several built matchbox kits, do you know of any photographic evidence of dark green / dark earth painted Heyfords at all?

Thanks in advance!

Regards

Chris

Edited by XF442
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Hi all,

my first posting on this forum. I hope my following concern doesn't put you off to much, however ... ?

I'm currently working on Matchbox' Handley Page Heyford kit, which is going to be the Mk.III version. The instructions depict the aeroplane in green / earth camouflage, but I am a bit unsure about that paintwork. Let me explain:

The instruction want me to paint the undersides in the same green as on the upper sides. Why that? IIRC fresh from factory all Heyfords sported NIVO paint over all, so I guess at a certain time (Munich Crisis?) they will have been camouflaged locally. I wonder, when applying dark earth / dark green on the upper surfaces, why not being consequent and apply "night" black to the undersides as it was standard on all other RAF night bombers? OK, the Heyfords were nearing the end of their operational use, so why bother the correct underside colour? But in this case - why paint the underside dark green then? Retaining it in NIVO in my opinion would have been much more consequent and less laborious.

Going one step further - apart from several built matchbox kits, do you know of any photographic evidence of dark green / dark earth painted Heyfords at all?

Thanks in advance!

Regards

Chris

Don't take this as gospel, but I had always assumed the Dark Earth was simply applied over the original overall Nivo scheme, hence the dark green [Nivo] undersurfaces.

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I agree with Dave. I've heard anecdotal stories of yellow-bellied, camouflaged Heyfords in service right up until the eve of WWII as target tugs or utility a/c, but no photographic evidence.

I lobbied hard for a 1/48 Heyford from Classic Airframes (along with a Saab J-21/J-21R), but to no avail...

J

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I agree with Dave. I've heard anecdotal stories of yellow-bellied, camouflaged Heyfords in service right up until the eve of WWII as target tugs or utility a/c, but no photographic evidence.

There were a couple used into the early 40s for that purpose, but afaik, no photos of camouflaged ones.

If they were, I'd agree re Dark earth over Nivo

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I have some copies of photos of a Heyford towing a Hotspur 1 glider (dating it as late 1940/early 41) but unfortunately the quality is such that both aircarft are just sillouettes so no idea what the colour scheme was.

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Thanks for the many replies. :) Painting only dark earth over the existing NIVO coat really could be a possibility. This would also be a perfect excuse for not changing the roundels to A1 specification. Yet the question of WHY this was done in the first place is still nagging me... Munich Crisis emergency maybe? I mean, this would have been some very irregular camouflage and I also can imagine every admin-bureaucrat getting a stroke seeing this done to HMS aeroplanes...

Regarding my question for photographic evidence, there is the following picture on the RAFMs website, which MIGHT show a two tone paintwork on the monocoque:

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/online-exhibit...72-189-56LG.jpg

What do you think of it? Am I seeing things?

----------

Hm, probably I should just exchange the intake filters and build my kit as a Mk.II?

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Looks to me like overall NIVO on the RAF Museum photo.
I seem to recall reading that disruptive camouflage trials in the mid/late 30s involved Dk Earth over NIVO on the top, with either NIVO or Night undersides for the purposes of comparative trials to see which colour/finish was the best in terms of reflectivity in searchlight beams. Whether (and how many) Heyfords were involved I don't recall. I think the Matchbox/Revell instructions may represent an obscure finish for a Heyford, but I don't think it is misleading.

Edited by kitbasher2009
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The following image is from " War In The Air ", a short-lived magazine from the early 90's. It was selection of 1940 articles from " The Aeroplane " and " Flight ".

The image shows a Hampden with a Heyford in the background. The Heyford looks to be finished in a light colour. I'm not saying it's yellow or brown, just lighter than what I think NIVO would be. It may be just badly faded.

I tried to scan the Heyford larger but the quality of the magazine paper and my new, s***e printer leaves a lot to be desired.

 

36346921061_f7929ea2d5_b.jpg

 

35649059164_87c3c8aac1_c.jpg

 

 

 

 

Chris

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Interesting, it almost appears to be silver with roundels underwing and a full fin flash. Must have been one retained for testing radar or maybe de-icing gear ... Although being put into silver is somewhat counter to everything else being camoflaged a couple years prior ???

Edited by JohnRatzenberger
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The other possibility is Yellow, as appropriate for a training or second-line aircraft. In which case the uppersurfaces would be Dark Green and Dark Earth. Presumably a check through Air Britain sources would highlight what must be only a handful of Heyfords to reach mid-1940.

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Given that the original Matchbox schemes were researched and drawn by Dick Ward, who is meticulous in his researches, I would guess there's a good reason why one of the schemes is camouflage, possible because Dick unearthed (sic) a photo of one from somewhere/someone.

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All the Mk.Is and IIs were gone before the outbreak of war, but surviving Mk.IIIs carried on in 3BGS and 4BGS (Bomber Gunnery Schools) until scrapped June/July/August 1940, together with other remaining airframes in MUs. So any of these (perhaps a score, I didn't count) could be contenders. However, two survived into 1941 as glider tugs for BA Swallows with the RAE, K6874 from November 1940 to February 1941, then scrapped, K5184 from July 1940. This last then did catapult launch trials (!) and Hotspur towing trials, scrapped in April 1941.

I suggest that the photo shows one of these two. The Hampden may be at the RAE for minelaying trials, in which case further information may be found, or the caption may be irrelevant. I suspect the latter, in that the Hampden is likely to have been cleared for minelaying before late 1940.

I agree that Dick Ward is a highly reliable source for aircraft camouflage and markings.

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OK then, I am convinced. Dark earth over NIVO it will be.

(BTW: Is it acceptable to post pictures of my build in this thread or are these sub-forums for "research" only?)

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What a teasing photo!
As far as the Heyford's colour scheme is - who knows?? However don't forget that colours appear lighter with distance, and the contrast with the foreground Hampden Hampden is pretty stark, so I wouldn't rule out Dk Earth/Dk Green uppers with trainer Yellow undersides as suggested in an earlier post.
It would be fascinating to see more of Dick Ward's research into the Matchbox Heyford schemes (carried over in their entirety with the Revell repop).
A close look at the Heyford suggests the picture was taken with orthochromatic film (I think that's the name) as what should be a yellow outer to the fuselage roundel appears black.

Edited by kitbasher2009
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Didn't know Dick did the MB research - I know he did most of the Airfix decals at that time.

Re the photo - is that a black outline on the roundel, suggesting a a Type A1 roundel with a yellow outer ring? If yes, then the shade isn't too far off how NIVO would look - think on ortho pics of FAA aircraft with Dark Slate Grey, as NIVO is supposed to be very similar

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