XV107 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 In case anyone's not seen it (and with apologies if I've missed a thread on this already!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil @ Flory Models Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 It's still red then.............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousER99 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Kinda looks like a flying billboard!! Couldnt they come up with a fancier font?? I will take the old one thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Alas, we're kinda stuck with the font - it's their shiny new RAF "corporate logo" nonsense. Anything to do with RAF promotions now has to have this titling on it, plus their copyrighted "RAF marking" which is of course a British Military Roundel, and as such it doesn't even belong to them! It's a farce. Like everything else these days, the PR machine has latched-on to the RAF now and we're doomed! I feel sorry for the men and women of the RAF that are going to be subjected to these promotional excursions; judging from my own recent experience with their PR machine. Gawd 'elp em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Looks like the last iteration of the Arrows Gnat scheme. Mind you, first real change in the 28 years they've used Hawks (except for a few tail fin logos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Nice to see '227 is still going strong - she must be the oldest aircraft in the team now (probably an original issue aircraft back in 1980 - I flew in her back in '83)... Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary West Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Yeah loving that - You can't have Royal Air Force too large for my liking. Reminds me of the Gnats in their last days with the Reds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlamgat9 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Alas, we're kinda stuck with the font - it's their shiny new RAF "corporate logo" nonsense. Anything to do with RAF promotions now has to have this titling on it, plus their copyrighted "RAF marking" which is of course a British Military Roundel, and as such it doesn't even belong to them! It's a farce. Like everything else these days, the PR machine has latched-on to the RAF now and we're doomed! I feel sorry for the men and women of the RAF that are going to be subjected to these promotional excursions; judging from my own recent experience with their PR machine. Gawd 'elp em! Who do the roundels belong to then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) Alas, we're kinda stuck with the font - it's their shiny new RAF "corporate logo" nonsense. Anything to do with RAF promotions now has to have this titling on it, plus their copyrighted "RAF marking" which is of course a British Military Roundel, and as such it doesn't even belong to them! It's a farce. Like everything else these days, the PR machine has latched-on to the RAF now and we're doomed! I feel sorry for the men and women of the RAF that are going to be subjected to these promotional excursions; judging from my own recent experience with their PR machine. Gawd 'elp em! thats true. the raf merlins are now starting to get new corporate markings. its supposed to stop the media calling them "army helicopters" but it looks like a recruitment ad to me Who do the roundels belong to then? the MoD i suppose Edited November 1, 2007 by paul_c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlamgat9 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 the MoD i suppose Which is basically the RAF isn't it? I checked the trade marks registry online, and the RAF roundel is a registered trademark for quite a few things (including model kits! but not t-shirts...) and you're right it is the MOD that owns them. So I guess the RAF (via the MOD) do own the roundel. Isn't really that surprising though is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr S Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 In case anyone's not seen it (and with apologies if I've missed a thread on this already!) I spoke to 2 red arrow pilots on Monday morning and they told me that the while chatting to the general public at shows, the most common question was "who do you work for?" !!!!!!!! The majority of the "great un-washed" (remember we are talking about "Muggles" here) did not know the Reds were RAF. The guy I was talking to said that most people thought they were sponsored by Coca Cola!!! He was most depressed by the whole thing and he wasn't winding me up! hence the new branding with the big ROYAL AIRFORCE down the side! G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Unfortunately, the corporate branding saga just gets worse as time goes by, and the RAFAT is just the latest victim. The titling on helicopters might well end-up on fixed-wing aircraft too the way things are going, especially now that France seem keen on going the same way, and of course Canada already has. The roundel business is quite comical, as it just illustrates how little grasp these PR/marketing people have of military history. Such was their eagerness to create a pretty logo they could use to make money, they failed to even grasp that it wasn't an RAF marking in the first place. But that's the way it is sadly. I'm particularly unimpressed that they demand license money off kit manufacturers in order to allow decal sheets to be produced, knowing full well that the manufacturers haven't got the cash and resources to take 'em to Court and tell 'em to get lost! It's shameful. I've had my own dealings with these people myself over the past year or so, and they're bad news, believe me. They're only concerned with either making cash or promoting themselves, and have no interest in projecting a positive image of the "real" RAF that they've hijacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary West Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 the most common question was "who do you work for?" Hence the Royal Air Force on the current Arrows aircraft as well.....some people, tss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric2020 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 It could have been worse! The Royal Netherlands AF F-16 Demo was done by an PR office. :shithappens: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I spoke to 2 red arrow pilots on Monday morning and they told me that the while chatting to the general public at shows, the most common question was "who do you work for?" fair question in todays world, the Royal Navy "Black Seahawks" team have Hawks flown by Serco and Falcons flown by FRA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J35 Draken Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 It could have been worse!The Royal Netherlands AF F-16 Demo was done by an PR office. :shithappens: What's wrong with that though? Both the special schemes on J-016 and J-055 have been amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric2020 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 What wrong is on this F-16 scheme is that it is not original as it was done by people who realy love to do an scheme on an aircraft and who work with it, as was the case in the past. Also The scheme is used for recruitment of young soldiers. Nthing wrong with that, but to paint such titles on an F-16 to me is just too far. And I dislike the scheme because it is way too glossy! It is an aicraft and it is not an billboard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I preferred the old version..This would have looked awesome had the wording not being there and the stripe only running to the tail.........almost reminds ME of the USA THUNDERBIRDS....I said ALMOST.....but not quite the PZAZZ of the THUNDERBIRDS! Houston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J35 Draken Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 What wrong is on this F-16 scheme is that it is not original as it was done by people who realy love to do an scheme on an aircraft and who work with it, as was the case in the past. Also The scheme is used for recruitment of young soldiers. Nthing wrong with that, but to paint such titles on an F-16 to me is just too far. And I dislike the scheme because it is way too glossy! It is an aicraft and it is not an billboard! But then aren all special schemes on display aircraft, aerobtic teams or solo displays, to help with PR and recruitment purposes? In this day and age where air force's are suffering from cutbacks I think it's good that the RNLAF F16 has such an eye catching special scheme, which seems relatively well known throughout the Netherlands and Europe. The display is a favourite on the european circuit and I'm sure it's been successful for PR within the Netherlands, especially as though the RNLAF doesn't have an aerobatic team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 the MoD i suppose and you're right it is the MOD that owns them. So I guess the RAF (via the MOD) do own the roundel. Isn't really that surprising though is it? No they don't. WE own the roundels. And the MoD and ultimately the RAF, Army, Navy etc. WE being UK taxpayers of course. Without us, they wouldn't exist, would they??!! So any dosh made from these ridiculous marketing and PR exercises ahould be fairly & equitably spread amongst US!!! (so that we can buy more plastic kits to stick OUR roundels on!! ) Keef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J35 Draken Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 No they don't. WE own the roundels. And the MoD and ultimately the RAF, Army, Navy etc. WE being UK taxpayers of course. Without us, they wouldn't exist, would they??!! So any dosh made from these ridiculous marketing and PR exercises ahould be fairly & equitably spread amongst US!!! (so that we can buy more plastic kits to stick OUR roundels on!! )Keef It's totally stupid isn't it. So what, the RAF charge the RN for the use of 'their' roundel on the Jetstreams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Thing is with the roundel, technically-speaking I should think a half-competent lawyer could argue that it isn't the intellectual property of any individual or organisation. It's a national insignia for application on British military aircraft, therefore I guess it's no different to a flag, and I don't see the government charging everyone whenever the Union Jack gets used. The ugly situation is that corporate branding people have got into the RAF chain now, and they've jumped on the roundel as something which they can obviously make cash out of. Okay, if the cash went to the MoD it effectively comes back to the taxpayer in theory, but of course money will also go to the PR people who will doubtless be making more than a few bob on the new merchandising and branding enterprises. Therefore I think it's quite astonishing that the roundel appears to have been hijacked without anybody even raising an eyebrow. Given the historical rivalry between the Royal Navy and the RAF in particular, I'm astonished that the jolly Admirals have allowed the junior service to steal the roundel from under their noses. Similarly, I'm surprised that people like Airfix have handed-over license money to produce decals on RAF subjects. Personally, if the MoD had tried that scam with me, I would have left the roundels off the decal sheets and tracked-down the artists who drew the original squadron emblems - if there's any copyright to be claimed it must belong to the artists not the RAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Bradshaw Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 (edited) I do hope that people aren't going to get their knickers in a twist over this whole roundel thing, however, does this mean that Britmodeller.com will now have to alter their own logo?... Derek Thing is with the roundel, technically-speaking I should think a half-competent lawyer could argue that it isn't the intellectual property of any individual or organisation. It's a national insignia for application on British military aircraft, therefore I guess it's no different to a flag, and I don't see the government charging everyone whenever the Union Jack gets used. The ugly situation is that corporate branding people have got into the RAF chain now, and they've jumped on the roundel as something which they can obviously make cash out of. Okay, if the cash went to the MoD it effectively comes back to the taxpayer in theory, but of course money will also go to the PR people who will doubtless be making more than a few bob on the new merchandising and branding enterprises. Therefore I think it's quite astonishing that the roundel appears to have been hijacked without anybody even raising an eyebrow. Given the historical rivalry between the Royal Navy and the RAF in particular, I'm astonished that the jolly Admirals have allowed the junior service to steal the roundel from under their noses.Similarly, I'm surprised that people like Airfix have handed-over license money to produce decals on RAF subjects. Personally, if the MoD had tried that scam with me, I would have left the roundels off the decal sheets and tracked-down the artists who drew the original squadron emblems - if there's any copyright to be claimed it must belong to the artists not the RAF. Edited November 8, 2007 by Derek Bradshaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J35 Draken Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I do hope that people aren't going to get their knickers in a twist over this whole roundel thing, however, does this mean that Britmodeller.com will now have to alter their own logo?... Derek Isn't it only the red/white/blue roundel that the RAF have got 'ownership' of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalguru Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Alas, we're kinda stuck with the font - it's their shiny new RAF "corporate logo" nonsense. Anything to do with RAF promotions now has to have this titling on it, plus their copyrighted "RAF marking" which is of course a British Military Roundel, and as such it doesn't even belong to them! It's a farce. Like everything else these days, the PR machine has latched-on to the RAF now and we're doomed! I feel sorry for the men and women of the RAF that are going to be subjected to these promotional excursions; judging from my own recent experience with their PR machine. Gawd 'elp em! Its nearly as bad as that "tm" s***e or whatever it was on RCAF planes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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