Airfix Canberra's

[Tim]

As said above, the Hawk did make it into the Italeri catalogue but when the Airfix kit appeared, it was dropped. A great shame as I'm sure Italeri would have made a nice job of it. Okay, the Airfix 48th kit is okay but it's not great, and I'm still trying to work-out what's wrong with the shape of the upper fuselage - or is it the fin fairing... whatever! I agree with Jonathan that manufacturers have their own customer base, but I'm not convinced that throwing money at revising the 72nd Hawk would be worthwhile in commercial terms. The bulk of the Hawk kits don't go to dedicated modellers, therefore the existing kit is probably good enough for most buyers to not warrant re-tooling it. Be great if they did, but I'd be surprised if it happened.

As for any manufacturer paying any attnetion to ARC or any other site, I would assume (or at least hope) that any major company would't really care what modellers say. I always find it quite funny how the modelling magazine scribes often try to make comments which they presumably imagine will influence manufacturers but of course it's largely academic what serious modellers think, because we don't buy the bulk of the kits. Aircraft like the Canberra, or the rumoured Hunter, and Meteor and so on would obviously have some international appeal so even without "casual" sales they ought to sell well enough, but I wonder about the Nimrod? I can't imagine there are many people outside the UK that have a clue what it is! From what I heard I don't think Revell's lovely Atlantic sold all that well. Will be interesting to see what happens. I guess it's relatively safe to pick obscure subjects if you're a small manufacturer, but when you're a "big boy" it must be very easy to get your fingers burned if you ain't careful.

Oh the box tops... you liked them? I never saw the appeal myself. Okay, the early Airfix tops have some nostalgia appeal but I think paintings are a bit last decade (or last millenium!) for kids these days. I would have thought something rather more "cool" would be the way to go, maybe a photograph of the real thing combined with a "cyber" three-view drawing or something. A dull painting can't be much of attention grabber when it's competing with DVD's and computer games?

[keefr22]

Mosquito -

Spey Phantom

Sea King HC.4

Tornado

Hawk - Red Arrows

all in 1/48............

Mosquito?? - and compete with the lovely Tamiya one??

Spey Phantom ?? - and compete with the lovely Hasegawa one?? (& which has recently been re-issued by Revell & has been heavily discounted - a sign it ain't selling??)

Surely it would be a better idea to kit things that haven't been done well & not compete with really good, established kits?

So much British stuff needs doing well that doesn't already exist as a good, modern, state of the art mainstream kit, either in 72nd or 48th - Javelin,Swift,Scimitar,Sea Vixen (yes, I know about the announced MPM ones - not mainstream though),

Twin Pioneer(!!), Andover, Argosy,etc etc etc (& oh yes, 72nd scale Lightnings!!!!)

Whatever happened to the 48th Airfix Canberras???!!!!

Keef

[Matt Roberts]

Is this what you are looking for?

There should be a hijacked thread smiley...and yes I did my part in doing that BUT I tried to get back on subject yesterday!

And now back to The Canberra thread. News out of the I-Hobby show last week had a price of the Canberras at around $50 USD (25 Pounds) does that sound right - allowing for Dollar dips?

A PR-9 in Hemp will be a sweet looking bird. I have had a jar of Grunze Hemp paint for nearly two years with nothing to paint with it!

Matt

Edited October 24, 2007 by Matt Roberts

[keefr22]

Is this what you are looking for?

There should be a hijacked thread smiley...and yes I did my part in doing that BUT I tried to get back on subject yesterday!

And now back to The Canberra thread. News out of the I-Hobby show last week had a price of the Canberras at around $50 USD (25 Pounds) does that sound right - allowing for Dollar dips?

A PR-9 in Hemp will be a sweet looking bird. I have had a jar of Grunze Hemp paint for nearly two years with nothing to paint with it!

Matt

[Paul Bradley]

Is this what you are looking for?

There should be a hijacked thread smiley...and yes I did my part in doing that BUT I tried to get back on subject yesterday!

Is this what you are looking for?

[Howard of Effingham]

Well, there is that matter of the 1:72 BAC/EE Lightning family that somebody has to produce sometime soon..

HERE! HERE!

as for schemes for the PR9. there's NMF, Dark Green/Dark Grey/LAG, hemp/LAG. a fair choice of squadrons, 13, 39 and

58 plus 1 PRU, and the various bits of nose art and the retirement scheme not forgetting the chilean AF either. so it

oughta keep most modelers happy.

some new 1/72 scale cranberries wouldn't go amiss either, even if i have the matchbox PR9 and the RoG [Frog] B8 in

the stash, they are a bit basic.

trevor

[AnonymousAA72]

HERE! HERE!

as for schemes for the PR9. there's NMF, Dark Green/Dark Grey/LAG, hemp/LAG. a fair choice of squadrons, 13, 39 and

58 plus 1 PRU, and the various bits of nose art and the retirement scheme not forgetting the chilean AF either. so it

oughta keep most modelers happy.

some new 1/72 scale cranberries wouldn't go amiss either, even if i have the matchbox PR9 and the RoG [Frog] B8 in

the stash, they are a bit basic.

trevor

Quite right! As for 1/72nd scale - we have been promised a B2 (from MPM) and a PR9(Xtrakit). Th esooner the better (though I do have a High Plane's B20 thats edging towards the front of the "build me" pile!!!- As a B(I)6 )

[keefr22]

as for schemes for the PR9. there's NMF, .....

Being picky (but it makes a difference if you intend to build one) they weren't NMF, they were painted aluminium (most likely High Speed silver) .....

Keef

[Tim]

You sure about that? On photographs they look as if they're natural metal?

[Gary West]

You sure about that? On photographs they look as if they're natural metal?

According to several books I have, all Canberra's were painted Silver

[GreenDragon]

IIRC Canberras were made partly from good old fashioned wood like a Mosquito and the RAF (great as they are) found it a bit hard to get a good NMF on the wooden bits!

[Tim]

...well the fin leading edge was wood, don't think much else was!

Maybe it's shiny silver then but it doesn't look like paint to me - and considering how many other Canberras were left unpainted surely it would be a bit unusual to paint the PR9's? Mind you, I wouldn't place much reliance on book statements either way! Oh well, if it is paint I guess it makes building a model much easier!

Edited October 26, 2007 by Tim

[Gary West]

Mind you, I wouldn't place much reliance on book statements either way!

Something you want to admit to Tim?

[bexwh773]

...well the fin leading edge was wood, don't think much else was!

Maybe it's shiny silver then but it doesn't look like paint to me - and considering how many other Canberras were left unpainted surely it would be a bit unusual to paint the PR9's? Mind you, I wouldn't place much reliance on book statements either way! Oh well, if it is paint I guess it makes building a model much easier!

Just the tail fin was wooden on the Cranberry, it was due to an all metal tail being too heavy, so the used wood instead, and its a right pig to repair. The rest of the airframe was metal. Yes all Cranberrys started off Silver, then Bomber COmmand had theirs repainted SIlver & Black and the variant paint schemes took off from there depending on the aircraft role.

Bex

[Tim]

You know how it is Gary - people just accept something as fact because they read it in a book, and of course it's often the case that the person who wrote the book was just making an educated guess or repeating information gleaned from elsewhere. I was marvelling at this fact when I was finishing my Vulcan book recently, and the various mistakes and misconceptions that have appeared in other Vulcan books time and time again, without anyone ever bothering to check. Problem is, once something's in print, it has a nasty habit of getting repeated in yet more books again and again, whether it's right or wrong. Obviously, this doesn't apply to everything but I think it's always worth trying to remember that just because you read something, it doesn't necessarily mean it's true! Anyway, we all still convinced that the PR9's were sprayed silver? You got me worried now...

[Gary West]

You know how it is Gary - people just accept something as fact because they read it in a book,

I take your point. By the way, I have your V Bombers - first class!

[bexwh773]

Anyway, we all still convinced that the PR9's were sprayed silver? You got me worried now...

I have gone layers of paint on a Cranberry that I have photos of in silver, but have not found any silver paint apart from in the UC bays where theyre meant to have silver paint. Id be interested to know which books state Cranberrys were "Painted" Silver.

Bex

[AnonymousA667]

I was under the impression that the RAF always painted its aircraft on the basis that unpainted aircraft have the tendency to turn into white powder after a relatively short period of time.

peebeep

[keefr22]

I have gone layers of paint on a Cranberry that I have photos of in silver, but have not found any silver paint apart from in the UC bays where theyre meant to have silver paint. Id be interested to know which books state Cranberrys were "Painted" Silver.

Bex

Didn't see it in a book - I'm old enough to have seen it with my own eyes - & the ones I saw were painted silver!

Keef

[keefr22]

I was under the impression that the RAF always painted its aircraft on the basis that unpainted aircraft have the tendency to turn into white powder after a relatively short period of time.

peebeep

Apart from Lightnings......!!!

keef

[AnonymousAA72]

Now,now you lot stop all of this bickering.......Natural metal Cranberries? Very unlikely.

....B2's were initially delivered in Medium Sea Grey and Black paint. - NOT silver, nor Silver & black Bex, I've NEVER come across that scheme!! Some (PR3/PR7) were painted in MSG/Light Slate Grey over PRU blue. Some B6's (and the PR9's) were then delivered in Aluminium/High Speed Silver paint - NOT natural metal. These aircraft then received an upper surface of Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey - undersurfaces were then painted in Light Aircraft Grey. T4's were generally High Speed Silver with yellow "T" bands - initially...some received Trainer command colours of LAG/Red & White.....some were camouflaged...

Then came the Hemp/LAG ...............

Generally speaking, and I daresay there were exceptions to this rule, I can't think of ANY post war aircraft in frontline British service that was left in Natural Metal - apart from the Lightning. Even the Nat metal CL-13 Sabres were painted upon arrival....

Canberra's, when initially delivered, and like many mid 50's aircraft had their panel lines pasted over with filler to aid airflow - and to reduce drag - they therefore HAD to be painted! They were also kept relatively clean and therefore shiny!!

I'm in the shop at the moment, so haven't any of my references with me - but rest assured, I will post them later!

Edited October 27, 2007 by Bill Clark

[Tim]

I've also been looking through photographs and now that I've bothered to look closely (particularly at colour shots), I'm inclined to think they're painted silver actually, although I'm still willing to be convinced either way... But as I said before, I guess it's a good thing if it is paint - much easier to replicate on a model don't you think?!

[John Aero]

IIRC Canberras were made partly from good old fashioned wood like a Mosquito and the RAF (great as they are) found it a bit hard to get a good NMF on the wooden bits!

The fin on Canberra's was indeed made of wood as this was the GEE H aerial. Wood was used to form a structural dielectric as when the Canberra was designed one of the few dielectrics available was perspex and this would had been unsuitable for a fin structure. Mosquito night fighters and Lancaster radomes were made of perspex which was sometimes painted.

High Speed silver with which Canberras where painted contains metallic particals so painting a dielectric with this would not be a good idea. Ours, (9 and 12 Sqn) were painted in the squadron colours or were grey. When Gee H ceased to be used in the very early '60's the fin could be any colour including silver. Canberras were never natural metal in normal service. High speed silver used to weather to to very dull silvery greys. The Canberra at Duxford is a good example of 'new' High speed Silver.

John

[AnonymousAA72]

I'm in the shop at the moment, so haven't any of my references with me - but rest assured, I will post them later!

Righthy Ho....The "On Target" Profile 7 - Canberra Part 1 by my old mate Jon Freeman and The Aviation Workshop...this book has numerous examples of "High Speed Silver" Canberra's which was introduced at the end of 1952. Jon has quoted plenty of references in his book, which appears to be researched to a very high standard.

The schemes in this book have been issued in the various Model Aviation decal sheets

Jon quotes "English Electric Canberra" by Ken Delve, Peter Green and John Clemons, Midland Counties Publications, 1992 on much of the artwork.

I also have Aeroguides 7 (EE Canberra BMk2/TMk4) & 34 (EE Canberra PR9), here's a quoted photo-caption from the latter book, with ......."XH137 fresh off the production line, in the sprayed "aluminium" paintwork that was characteristic of all PR.9s when they entered service. The beautiful aerodynamic shape of the Canberra is never more evident when the aircraft is depicted in this finish"

I'd recommend these books to anyone!!!

[keefr22]

Righthy Ho....The "On Target" Profile 7 - Canberra Part 1 by my old mate Jon Freeman and The Aviation Workshop...this book has numerous examples of "High Speed Silver" Canberra's which was introduced at the end of 1952. Jon has quoted plenty of references in his book, which appears to be researched to a very high standard.

The schemes in this book have been issued in the various Model Aviation decal sheets

Jon quotes "English Electric Canberra" by Ken Delve, Peter Green and John Clemons, Midland Counties Publications, 1992 on much of the artwork.

I also have Aeroguides 7 (EE Canberra BMk2/TMk4) & 34 (EE Canberra PR9), here's a quoted photo-caption from the latter book, with ......."XH137 fresh off the production line, in the sprayed "aluminium" paintwork that was characteristic of all PR.9s when they entered service. The beautiful aerodynamic shape of the Canberra is never more evident when the aircraft is depicted in this finish"

I'd recommend these books to anyone!!!

Thanks Bill, thanks John.

Really didn't mean to sound like I was bickering - but I can still (just!!) remember what I saw back in the dark ages! One thing with the 'on target' book, a friend who is much more observant than me has picked up a couple of errors in the artwork, which are pretty obvious when you cross refer them to the pictures in the Delve et al Canberra book that they quote as the reference! Still a lovely book though, & the Delve book which my son managed to win for a £1 in the tombola in the nats a couple of years back is just fantastic!

Cheers

keef