RAF MUSTANG III interior colors

[zaxos345]

Hi Guys, a friend of mine is building a RAF MUSTANG III and he wants to know about the interior cockpit colors of this airplane, as well as the color of the wheel wells, inside of the wheel doors etc. Especially about the floor color, he found somewhere that when it was wood it was painted with the ANA 612 or FS34092 something like the Dull Dark Green. If anyone can help?

All the best John

[spitfire]

Hi there, have a look at this http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004...rs_us_part2.htm

More http://www.clubhyper.com/forums/forum.htm

Some great information, not just on the P-51. As for wheel wells have a look here, it's worth saving this information.

http://www.clubhyper.com/forums/forum.htm

Cheers

Den

Edited November 2, 2010 by spitfire

[Steven Eisenman]

A P-51B/C most likely had an interior green cockpit with a Dull Dark Green seat. The cockpit anti-glare (area over the instruments) also DDG. The wood floor would be coated with a black anti-skid coating.

The full documentation on wheel wells.:

Dana Bell

Mustang corrosion control...

Fri Oct 1, 2004 08:33

160.111.69.104

You've got several options here, but unpainted "natural" aluminum with a yellow zinc chromate main spar is the most common for P-51Bs and Cs.

The early Allison-engined Mustangs used the standard prewar corrosion control finishes for the wheel wells and struts: two coats of primer and one coat of aluminized lacquer.

In 1942, before the Merlin-engined Mustangs entered production, North American was granted permission to build Mustangs without interior primers as a means of speeding production. The main wing spars were generally primed with a single coat of yellow zinc chromate to protect the alloy spar itself, to avoid dissimilar metal corrosion in the areas where the spar contacted the inner faces of the aluminum skin, and to reduce static electricity buildup on the aft face of the spar (where the main tanks were located). There is a chance that some early Bs and Cs were delivered with unpainted spars, but I've never found more than a slight possibility of that having occurred.

As part of the cost- and time-savings measures, all other non-cockpit interior areas were left in unpainted aluminum finish. Since there were several grades of aluminum present, this led to corrosion issues on the Mustang, and at some point (I've not been able to pin down a date or place in production) wheel wells began to appear in overall yellow zinc chromate. I know for sure that this happened late in P-51D production. The problems had certainly been identified during B and C production, and fixes were ordered, I just can't find proof that these earlier models actually got the fix.

If, for any reason, a second coat of primer was applied to the wheel well, it would have been green zinc chromate (by that time, the same as Interior Green). I haven't seen evidence of that during WWII, but it could have happened.

As for aluminum lacquer with a yellow spar, that's the one option that didn't happen and actually makes the least sense. The object was to save money and time, so most corrosion control finishes were eliminated. If aluminized lacquer WAS used, it would have been used to overspray the entire well. (Leaving the main spar in yellow in a lacquered well was made more difficult by wartime shortages of both Magic Mask and Parafilm.)

This may be splitting hairs on an OOOOO paint brush, but an aluminized lacquer finish just doesn't look the same as an unpainted aluminum finish, even in scale.

Hope something here helps and makes sense...

Cheers,

Dana

Dana Bell

AM Mustang wells...

Fri Oct 1, 2004 09:11

160.111.69.104

I plan to use an aluminum lacquer effect in my Accurate Miniatures P-51A wells - it's certainly the best documented option. The caution here is that later Allison-engined Mustangs MAY have had unpainted wells with a yellow zinc chromate spar - that documentation probably won't turn up until both of us have completed our models!

Cheers,

Dana

Dana Bell

Not so, sir...

Fri Oct 1, 2004 07:50

160.111.69.104

I'm afraid "current thinking" is wrong on this one - there is no evidence of aluminum lacquered wheel wells with a yellow main spar, while there are plenty of photos of overall yellow P-51 wells.

You've got to ask yourself how the manufacturer would have been able to paint the well aluminum without getting any overspray on the spar, or why anyone should even attempt such a thing.

Dana

Dana Bell

Mustang subassys...

Fri Oct 1, 2004 15:22

160.111.69.104

A good thought, but not backed by photos of the production line. The wheel wells were not actually subassemblies - they were just spaces for the wheels. The top of the well was the inside of the skin, as was the bottom. The back was the spar - everything else was gear-related or a rib.

The spar was painted with yellow zinc chromate prior to construction of the wing. Any other finish was applied during construction.

Cheers,

Dana

Dana Bell

Mustang wells...

Fri Oct 1, 2004 09:03

160.111.69.104

Sorry to leave that post without details - I've added an explanation above. You're right that the effect was the result of the production process. I was distinguishing between unpainted aluminum and aluminum lacquer - two different processes in manufacturing and two different effects in modeling.

Many modelers probably don't care - after all, we all have to paint the plastic "silver" - but with the wide variety of aluminum finish paints now available there'll be a lot of folks looking for the most accurate effect in their painting.

I seem to remember modeling as an easier hobby back in the days when everything got brushed with a coat of Pactra Flat Aluminum - the paint had a grain larger than a silver dollar, but I loved that stuff!

Cheers,

Dana

Dana Bell

Anticorrosive colors and P-51s...

Tue Aug 27 10:19:29 2002

209.244.225.103

There are really three phases of wartime painting of Mustang wheel wells - all related to corrosion control. At first, the metal surfaces were to be painted with one coat of zinc chromate (yellow), one coat of tinted zinc chromate (green), and one coat of aluminized lacquer. This finish appears to have been limited to Allison-engined Mustangs.

Two things happened in 1942. First, a shortage of aluminum ended the use of the aluminized lacquer and forced the reformulation of green zinc chromate. (This led to the use of other colors for wheel wells and struts - for example the Neutral Gray on Lightings and Bronze Green on some P-39s and B-29s.) Second, the AAF allowed North American to produce AT-6s, B-25s, and P-51s without primers to ease production. (Boeing got similar permission for its B-17s.) This is what led to the unpainted wheel well noted below. Throughout this period, the wing spar appears to have consistently carried zinc chromate (yellow) primer. (The primer reduced corrosion where the spar contacted the aluminum sheet and reduced the buildup of static electricity - an important issue with the fuel tanks mounted just aft of the spar.) This combination, as noted below, was common on Bs and Cs, and most Ds and Ks.

By 1944, the AAF was receiving complaints about corrosion in a number of aircraft, including the Mustang. Some unspecified action was required, particularly to reduce dissimilar metal corrosion between structural members and skin panels. Some manufacturers gave the structure a coat of yellow zinc chromate before adding the skin. Some left the structure unprimed and gave the inner surface of the skin a coat of yellow zinc chromate. It's not clear how North American handled the problem, but there is one undated color shot of a P-51D (or K) production line showing the entire wheel well primed in yellow.

This is just a general explanation - it won't help you know what color the wheel wells would be on any particular aircraft. But you can make your own informed decisions based on the date you suspect any particular aircraft (and not just a Mustang) was manufactured.

Cheers,

-Dana

Dana Bell

Green Zinc Chromate...

Tue Aug 27 10:30:45 2002

209.244.225.103

Interior Green is the ANA color name for the zinc chromate green mixed from black and zinc chromate yellow. Up until 1942, the zinc chromate green formula also included aluminum paste or powder - this was dropped due to the wartime aluminum shortage. For about a year, each company did some experimentation trying to match zinc chromate green using different tints (though the Navy also used a red tint). In 1943 the ANA colors came along, and after that, Interior Green quickly became standard.

-Dana

[zaxos345]

Thank you very much Guys, but which is the ''main wing spar'', is it the portion of the wheel well next to the fuselage? or the back side of it as we see it from the front? i am a bit confused!!!

[Chuck1945]

Thank you very much Guys, but which is the ''main wing spar'', is it the portion of the wheel well next to the fuselage? or the back side of it as we see it from the front? i am a bit confused!!!

The main spar runs the span of the wings - it forms the rear "wall" of the gear bay. Note that most P-51 kits incorrectly have the gear bay completely enclosed with sides. In reality it was open towards the front and rear with the skinning of the lower wing and siffeners visible. The only sides were at the back of the large wheel opening part where the spar was located and closing off the fuselage ends of the bays.

[zaxos345]

Thanks chuck if any photos are available i would appreciated.

Regards John

[Troy Smith]

Thanks chuck if any photos are available i would appreciated.

Regards John

hi John

Vector do very good but quite expensive replacement wheel wells for Tamiya Mustangs (so should also fit ICM)

the site http://www.neomega-resin.com/vector/cockpits.htm has more pictures, but this will give a good idea of what Chuck what means. Kits tend to have a wall following the well shape, but the spar, is at the back of the widest point. Ironically this is easier to see on the resin

AFAIK no Mustang kit gets the wells right.

HTH

T

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Holy thread resurrection batman. Can someone please encourage my laziness and tell me what colour the fuel tank would normally be? I'm guessing it may have had self-sealing rubber coating on it and could be black in appearance?

[Lawzer]

You mean the one behind the cockpit? I did a p51 (tuskegee) and it called for silver (aluminium) and I've got a polish raf mustang and I think it calls the same.  I'll check tomorrow.....

[Don McIntyre]

I always thought they were black...

I am willing to be corrected, however.

[Lawzer]

Just had a look and the kit (revell) calls for 25% bronze green mat and 75% yellow matt. Make of that what you will

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

That sounds like they're trying to make a tinted zinc chromate interior green.

 

I'd really struggle to believe this wasn't a self sealing tank and can't think what use a second metal skin around it would be. I might trawl the internet for period photos. You never know...

[Lawzer]

It seems the same color is called for for pretty much the whole cockpit interior so i think you may be right.....