Hasegawa must be on crack...

[Mozzy19]

Was it not established some time back that Hasegawa's prices are domestically reasonable, its what happens when they leave their shores that the price starts piling on more pounds than Eamon Holmes at a wedding buffet?

How come Tamiya kits aren't as expensive as Hasegawa? They come from Japan too. I mean that in relative terms, Tamiya kits are still expensive, but they seem to be nicer builds than some Hasegawa kits.

[denstore]

How come Tamiya kits aren't as expensive as Hasegawa? They come from Japan too. I mean that in relative terms, Tamiya kits are still expensive, but they seem to be nicer builds than some Hasegawa kits.

As Mr Mock says, it has been established that the high prices of Hasegawa kits is because of the importer, not Hasegawa. In japan, their kits are priced in the same bracket as Tamiya or any other domestic model producer. It's on the way here to Europe the prices rises a lot more than most other japanese products.

Most japanese kits have the cost printed on their boxes. Start comparing the Yen-price to the £-price, and you will see that some kits, especially the "limited editions" of Hasegawa get a lot higher price on their way to the euro market.

But also note that most of the limited edition kits have higher prices in japan as well. New decals, and/or especially, resin parts, usually raises the price quite a bit in japan as well. Maybe between £5-10 (from something like £21 to £24-28. But that isn't even close to the increase in price we see here in europe, which usually raises the price with 50%, or even more.

[Mozzy19]

As Mr Mock says, it has been established that the high prices of Hasegawa kits is because of the importer, not Hasegawa. In japan, their kits are priced in the same bracket as Tamiya or any other domestic model producer. It's on the way here to Europe the prices rises a lot more than most other japanese products.

Most japanese kits have the cost printed on their boxes. Start comparing the Yen-price to the £-price, and you will see that some kits, especially the "limited editions" of Hasegawa get a lot higher price on their way to the euro market.

But also note that most of the limited edition kits have higher prices in japan as well. New decals, and/or especially, resin parts, usually raises the price quite a bit in japan as well. Maybe between £5-10 (from something like £21 to £24-28. But that isn't even close to the increase in price we see here in europe, which usually raises the price with 50%, or even more.

Ah ok, I can see Hasegawa changing their importer if they start to lose sales because of the importers prices.

[denstore]

Ah ok, I can see Hasegawa changing their importer if they start to lose sales because of the importers prices.

Maybe. But I've heard they really don't care that much about export. According to some sources, 90% of their sales are domestic, and they probably worry more about the decreasing sales at home.

Probably the best solution is to pass on the importers stuff, and buy it trough other sources. Sooner or later they will need to adjust their pricing policies.

Edited March 29, 2013 by denstore

[thx6667]

Maybe. But I've heard they really don't care that much about export. According to some sources, 90% of their sales are domestic, and they probably worry more about the decreasing sales at home.

Probably the best solution is to pass on the importers stuff, and buy it trough other sources. Sooner or later they will need to adjust their pricing policies.

Yup. The Japanese kit market is huge. Its my favourite trick question to ask which is the biggest kit company in the world, Hasegawa or Tamiya? Neither - Bandai. But the bulk of their sales, via the Gundam kits, is domestic and they shift an eye-watering amount of kits, and we're talking millions here. Japan has a huge appetite for modelling. They are the main course. We are the breadsticks.

So long story short, Hasegawa are not setting the UK price. If you buy from Japan you'll get a true idea on what the average real price is.

[jasman71]

Gents, I know this is maybe a moot point, but presumably there is an importer in Japan for airfix ? And maybe other western manufacturers? I'd be interested to know what price differences there are, if any, between the home market RRPs and their imported ones.

[Sebastien]

Gents, I know this is maybe a moot point, but presumably there is an importer in Japan for airfix ? And maybe other western manufacturers? I'd be interested to know what price differences there are, if any, between the home market RRPs and their imported ones.

Hi,

Airfix Merlin is 45£ at 1999.co.jp : http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10192152

Cheers,

S.

[Giorgio N]

When I visited I've seen kits from airfix, revell, italeri (although most of theirs are sold through tamiya), even Amodel and the czech brands. Seems that all western kit manufacturers can be foud easily in Japan.

Prices seemed to vary a lot, with some kits a bit more expensive than in Europe and others even cheaper.

What I found quite different from Europe is that every shop sells the latest news at full RRP but the rest of the stock is usually sold at lower prices. I've seen kits for unbelievable figures, and only the relatively small size of my bags (and the wary look of a girlfriend....) stopped me from doubling the size of the stash. a 1/72 Hase F-104 or a fujimi A-7 for £5, the hase tomcat for £16..... it is less than the same kits go for on the second hand market here.

As Jonathan said, the largest market there is for sci-fi and anime related items though, and anyone who is into this kind of things would be amazed at the choice available.

To give an idea of the size of the market, in Osaka alone I've seen at least four different shops on the same road. the word "shop" is maybe not the right one, as the smaller was a 3 storey building dedicated to anime only. One of the "shops" was a 7 storey building all dedicated to the hobby... now that is a modeller's paradise

[ancient mariner]

Does this mean that my stash of 40+ unmade Hasegawa kits have gone up in value?

No Im afraid not. If you try to sell them at twice the price you paid for them and twenty quid lower than is being asked for them,you would be accuse of profiteering and duly tarred,.feathered and run out of town on a rail.

[Bobski]

Hi,

Airfix Merlin is 45£ at 1999.co.jp : http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10192152

Cheers,

S.

Which is cheaper than the RRP in the UK. Welcome to no VAT!

[-Neu-]

Gents, I know this is maybe a moot point, but presumably there is an importer in Japan for airfix ? And maybe other western manufacturers? I'd be interested to know what price differences there are, if any, between the home market RRPs and their imported ones.

As Giorgio suggests the MSRP varies. I've seen Czech and Revell kits for 2X or even 3X the prices. Airfix ones are all over the board. I also notice that they don't sell as well as others. Chinese and Academy kits seem to becoming more common, if I remember correctly the price was generally 10% or 30% higher than msrp.... however I don't really look at those kits.

Yup. The Japanese kit market is huge. Its my favourite trick question to ask which is the biggest kit company in the world, Hasegawa or Tamiya? Neither - Bandai. But the bulk of their sales, via the Gundam kits, is domestic and they shift an eye-watering amount of kits, and we're talking millions here. Japan has a huge appetite for modelling. They are the main course. We are the breadsticks.

So long story short, Hasegawa are not setting the UK price. If you buy from Japan you'll get a true idea on what the average real price is.

Its difficult to say.. but I think the actual largest kit maker is Tamiya, because of their RC line and other hobby stuff. Now at the same time, if you add in Bandai's entertainment division then I suspect its Bandai.

As Mr Mock says, it has been established that the high prices of Hasegawa kits is because of the importer, not Hasegawa. In japan, their kits are priced in the same bracket as Tamiya or any other domestic model producer. It's on the way here to Europe the prices rises a lot more than most other japanese products.

Most japanese kits have the cost printed on their boxes. Start comparing the Yen-price to the £-price, and you will see that some kits, especially the "limited editions" of Hasegawa get a lot higher price on their way to the euro market.

But also note that most of the limited edition kits have higher prices in japan as well. New decals, and/or especially, resin parts, usually raises the price quite a bit in japan as well. Maybe between £5-10 (from something like £21 to £24-28. But that isn't even close to the increase in price we see here in europe, which usually raises the price with 50%, or even more.

That's about right. The MSRP of most japanese makers kits are always printed on the box. Most shops are that price with a 20% discount. What's really cool is that many smaller shops in smaller cities in Japan still sell kits from the 80s and 90s with their MSRP from when they were released. Last time I went and got the 1/72 hasegawa cougar for like 800 Yen.

[NicPl]

As Mr Mock says, it has been established that the high prices of Hasegawa kits is because of the importer, not Hasegawa. In japan, their kits are priced in the same bracket as Tamiya or any other domestic model producer. It's on the way here to Europe the prices rises a lot more than most other japanese products.

Most japanese kits have the cost printed on their boxes. Start comparing the Yen-price to the £-price, and you will see that some kits, especially the "limited editions" of Hasegawa get a lot higher price on their way to the euro market.

But also note that most of the limited edition kits have higher prices in japan as well. New decals, and/or especially, resin parts, usually raises the price quite a bit in japan as well. Maybe between £5-10 (from something like £21 to £24-28. But that isn't even close to the increase in price we see here in europe, which usually raises the price with 50%, or even more.

Well two words come into my mind here:

corporate greed

wether it'll be the kit manufacturers themselves or, more likely, all the middlemen between the manufacturer to the retailer, who all wants a bite of the cake too; not to mention the greed of the taxauthorities in each country (VAT) do contribute to the overall increase in retail prices.

Just before Easter I picked up a Hase B-24 for the allmost 'ridiculous' price of £19,35 instead of £64,50 which was the normal retail price! I can pay off to look for special offers.

[Brad]

Hasegawa prices here in Australia are through the roof. You will pay 80-110 bucks for a 1/72 junkers 88 with some of the single engine fighters pushing 120 dollars; that's the same price as the Revell Heinkel 111 in 1/32 and 50 bucks more expensive than the 1/32 Junkers 88!! I really don't know how the shops sell them, but we do have a thriving second hand market which must be hurting the shops and distributers..infact one distributer went tango uniform.

[spruecutter96]

Hi to all.

There is one aspect of this discussion I reckon needs to be considered.... and the possible conclusions are not good.

Ridiculous prices on new kits + rapidly ageing modelling community + the inability / unwillingness of future generations to engage with anything that takes any real, long tem commitment (we're talking about people who can't be bothefed to wait more than 8 seconds for a website to appear) = the death of our hobby....

What does anyone else think?

[Sebastien]

Hi to all.

There is one aspect of this discussion I reckon needs to be considered.... and the possible conclusions are not good.

Ridiculous prices on new kits + rapidly ageing modelling community + the inability / unwillingness of future generations to engage with anything that takes any real, long tem commitment (we're talking about people who can't be bothefed to wait more than 8 seconds for a website to appear) = the death of our hobby....

What does anyone else think?

Hi,

I think you got it wrong on one tiny bit.

It means death of our hobby shops.

Cheers,

S.

[Giorgio N]

Hi to all.

There is one aspect of this discussion I reckon needs to be considered.... and the possible conclusions are not good.

Ridiculous prices on new kits + rapidly ageing modelling community + the inability / unwillingness of future generations to engage with anything that takes any real, long tem commitment (we're talking about people who can't be bothefed to wait more than 8 seconds for a website to appear) = the death of our hobby....

What does anyone else think?

That the almost incredible number of new items being issued every month by kit and aftermarket manufacturers totally contradicts the idea that the hobby may be dying !

Let's stick to facts rather than get carried away with our fears.

Hasegawa kits have always been more expensive than the competition, and the exchange rates have varied continuously over the last 30 years so nothing new here. But hasegawa is not the only manufacturer in the world: there's plenty of cheap kits on the market! Airfix, revell, italeri, can all be found at low prices. In the far east (not including japan) hobbyboss and academy kits cost peanuts, so modellers all over the world have plenty of options to get cheap kits.

Plastic modelling is widespread all over the world, if less kids start this hobby in the UK it does not mean that the same occurs everywhere else. The hobby is very strong in asia and eastern europe, hence the large number of manufacturers from those countries. Even if UK kids stopped buying kits, there would always be kids somewhere else doing it. This assuming that it is actually true that younger generations don't take up the hobby: there may be less kids playing with model kits than 30 years ago, but there are still kids doing that, otherwise mainstream companies could not sell the tens of thousands kits per year needed to survive. We're talking companies with revenues of several mln per year, considering that the kit is sold to distributors for way less than what we pay it we can try and do the math to get an idea of how many boxes leave any company every year... I reckon there's quite a few people that must be buying kits in the UK and elsewhere..

Besides, people can (and do) approach the hobby at a later age, while most of us might have started as kids, I know of others that have started when no longer teenager. These are modellers that can afford with no problem the higher prices of japanese kits or short run products.

So all in all It seems to me that the hobby is far from dying. On the contrary, it's in way better shape than it was when I started some 30 years ago. Yes we have lost esci and a couple other brands, we have lost most vacform manufacturers, but we have gained all the chinese companies, the czech short run manufacturers, the resin producers photo-etch...

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

There's a few ways to get cheap Hasegawa kits. First of all is some are reboxed by Revell. The 1/72 HE111 and Harrier GR9 spring to mind, both considerably cheaper than the Hasegawa boxings.

Second, as mentioned, buy second hand ones! I've got a few Fw190's that way. There's many 2nd hand bargains to be found at shows.

Third, in the UK at least, wait until stores like Modelzone (who I've heard are connected with Hasegawa's UK Importers) put them on sale really cheap, as they can't sell them at full price. Hannant's also have many kits at 1/3 off RRP and have had several at 2/3 off RRP! I got myself a Fw190D-9 and C202 Folgore dual set that way.

Lastly, if all else fails, take a chance and buy from HLJ (or other shop) in Japan. I wanted the Fw190D-9 Jabo but UK RRP is £25, even the trade price is silly on that one. I've ordered one from HLJ with a couple of other kits and it costs £11 - which is much less than UK Trade price!

thanks

Mike

[Mozzy19]

Ridiculous prices on new kits + rapidly ageing modelling community + the inability / unwillingness of future generations to engage with anything that takes any real, long tem commitment (we're talking about people who can't be bothefed to wait more than 8 seconds for a website to appear) = the death of our hobby....

What does anyone else think?

I'm 17 and I build kits. I agree that there isn't many people my age who do build kits but its not down to impatience, it's more to do with it being seen as "geeky", with things like computer games (or round my area, Mountain Biking) taking over as new hobbies. And considering the amount of people who take Design Technology (wood and metal work for those who don't know) shows that people my age are prepared to take care over long term projects.

Sean.

[Skids]

I dont think Hasegawa are on crack, but maybe the importer is?

But I would imagine that if you queried Amerang on the costs they would tell you that shipping Hasegawa kits into this country is not cheap?

1. I think that you would have to ship vast quantities to get a good cost.

2. The actual cost of shipping, fuel, cargo space etc

3. Import Tax etc

Now I am not backing up the costs as I would not pay full UK prices for Hasegawa Kits. I buy second hand or wait for deals. I have just started getting them from Japan/China etc aswell. If lucky you can get good deals and not get stung by HMRC. But if you do get import tax on it they are not much cheaper.

I dont think hobby shops will die out, they may stop stocking Hasegawa (my local doesn't stock them) but maybe that would be a good thing in the long run.

Maybe if shops stopped trading Hasegawa kits and modellers started buying from the likes of HLJ, Amerang would notice lack of sales and have to re-evaluate its pricing, or maybe not.

Anyway I imagine that Hasegawa are really not that concerned about the European market (as it has been mention on BM before about the quantities sold on the European market) or they would have done something about it.

Also most companies are in business to make money not to keep me or anyone else supplied if cost price kits.

Greed will always rear its ugly head where it can. And if you want it that badly you will pay the price and importers know that.

[Panoz]

All that fuss for reboxes of kits from the 80s & 90s.Geez......

HASEGAWA....I mean who CARES????

[chadders]

All that fuss for reboxes of kits from the 80s & 90s.Geez......

HASEGAWA....I mean who CARES????

+1. There's plenty of interesting kits on the market. We don't need to concentrate on the fact that one is expensive.

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

+1. There's plenty of interesting kits on the market. We don't need to concentrate on the fact that one is expensive.

Very true but they keep doing subjects I want! Mosquito Mk XVIII and B5N2 with AP bomb for example!

thanks

Mike

[Tiger331]

Gents, I know this is maybe a moot point, but presumably there is an importer in Japan for airfix ? And maybe other western manufacturers? I'd be interested to know what price differences there are, if any, between the home market RRPs and their imported ones.

No, its not a moot point.....this import/export business works both ways and you are right to point it out. Over here in Norway we 'enjoy' nicely inflated prices for Airfix and Revell kits.....The Airfix 1:48 Canberras are a snip at £60+ and a 1:48 Spitfire will set you back about £30. Revell kits were much the same until quite recently with a 1:72 Lancaster seen for £35 and the Tornados working out at around £25....Thankfully someone appears to have got a grip of the importer for the latter and they are now a little more competitively priced.

Mark

[Julien]

I dont think Hasegawa are on crack, but maybe the importer is?

But I would imagine that if you queried Amerang on the costs they would tell you that shipping Hasegawa kits into this country is not cheap?

1. I think that you would have to ship vast quantities to get a good cost.

2. The actual cost of shipping, fuel, cargo space etc

3. Import Tax etc

There will be some costs with this. However you can get a lot of plastic kits in a container, so if you were to divide by the total amount, your shipping costs come out quite low. Also it may surprise people but airfreight from the far east can be less than sea freight these days due to overcapacity driving rates down. Also no import duty on plastic kits in the UK, and vat is passed to the consumer.

As has been said in this thread the value of the pound to the yen has halved over recent times and this is where most of the increase has come from.

Julien

[AnonymousAA72]

I'll be honest here, I haven't bothered wading through all the posts on this thread..but here's a thought about kits and affordability...now when I was a lad, and starting off on this long and meandering modelling fad...when I was still in short trousers no doubt, I was given pocket money -in shillings and (mostly) pence. Not a lot I don't suppose, but I expect it equated to a series 1 Airfix kit. So, I could buy one of those, but not afford a Series 2 or above kit. So, instead of buying that series 1 kit that week, I'd buy a series 2,or whatever the following week, or week after. This worked quite well, and by the time I'd reached my teens, and came accross Hasegawa's 1/72nd Spitfire I, or P51D for example (1970's sophistication!) which were a lot more expensive than Airfix equivalents I'd save up for them.

Forward four decade's; Hasegawa's kits are more expensive than Aifix's.........IF I want a Hasegawa kit (or any relatively expensive kit) I just save up for it.

Of course everyone will have an upper limit to what they're willing to pay for a kit, but for all the whinging about prices, this hobby is still cheap, certainly compared with Model Railways for example.

You ain't gonna beat the system, VATs VAT as they say, but you can always take measures to alieviate its impact. Save, E-Bay, buy overseas, OR heaven forbid - take up a cheaper hobby - I'm sure there must be some out there that cost less....