British Panther

[Stuart Wilson]

DON'T use the Dragon Panther G with Zimmeritt for Cuckoo.

Cuckoo had horizontal zimmeritt ridges like a Tiger, the Dragon kit has the more common verticle ones. Also a lot of the Zimm had come off the front.

You're better off putting the zimm on yourself.

I've never seen a photo of Deserter so I don't know what she looked like.

Stuart Wilson

[Stormbringer]

There are pics about of Deserter, I seem to remember issue #4 of AFV Modeller had a couple in it. Somewhere at home i have some on a cdrom.

Pete

[vonmarkenhausen]

The panther "Cuckoo" was named so because it was the odd bird in the nest.

[ChrisITA]

The panther "Cuckoo" was named so because it was the odd bird in the nest.

More precisely because it was assigned to the HQ Sqn and the tanks in the HQ Sqn were named after Birds

[Folkbox1]

DON'T use the Dragon Panther G with Zimmeritt for Cuckoo.

Cuckoo had horizontal zimmeritt ridges like a Tiger, the Dragon kit has the more common verticle ones. Also a lot of the Zimm had come off the front.

Thanks for the heads up on this, Stuart. I doubt I would have spotted this discrepancy. I'll have to have a good look at the Dragon kit and then a good think about whether to live with the wrong zimmerit pattern or get a new kit and brave doing my own zimm.

Darren

[Hepster]

When I was a lad many many moons ago,

I remember reading an old copy of the then after the battle magazine and it covered a Panther found in a scrappies in London, seems they built the pile of scrap over it after the war and as stuff was processed more was added, it was only many years later when the place was being closed and the final stuff got rid of, they found the panther at the bottom complete with its cut off gun lying beside it!

I remember the mag, and I also remember an article in Wheels & Tracks which mentioned it and others. It was one of several (maybe 6-8) part finished vehicles that REME arranged to have completed immediately post-war for evaluation in the UK. The Bovington tank museum Panther is one of them, and the scrapyard vehicle was another - it was donated to the Munster tank museum and subsequently restored IIRC. I guess the remainder are now Coke cans...

I remember once seeing a pic of a couple of these Panthers on Salisbury Plain in company with a couple of Centurions; what a diorama that would make!

[ChrisITA]

Thanks for the heads up on this, Stuart. I doubt I would have spotted this discrepancy. I'll have to have a good look at the Dragon kit and then a good think about whether to live with the wrong zimmerit pattern or get a new kit and brave doing my own zimm.

Darren

The zimm is very easy to do Darren. All you need is a zimmerit roller from Lionroar or similar, some fine milliput and some talcum powder

Mix up your milliput then roll it nice and thin on a cold very flat surface, I use an old spare tile from when I tiled the kitchen. Put some talc on the tile, place your milliput on it and coat a rolling pin (or an old beer bottle) in talc then roll the milliput as thin as you possibly can.

Very important, roll it quickly and DO NOT fold talc into it as it will get too dry and crumble.

Once you have it very thin, then brush the surface of the kit so its damp then apply the milliput. The dampness helps it to adhere to the plastic. Trim to fit

Leave this a couple of minutes then get your roller and apply the zimm pattern. I prefer to zimm the parts before I assemble them

This is the method I used for my Cuckoo. Hope it helps

Chris

[Stormbringer]

Folks,

I've found the pics of Deserter that I had on cd, if anyone wants to have a look please pm me your email address and I'll attempt to email them over. I'd rather not post them on here for copyright reasons.

Pete

[tonyot]

I remember going on a molotov cocktail range in Germany where we had to throw our lighted bottles into a big black pit and at the bottom of it there was an old Panther and what looked like a couple of T-33`s. Across from that there was a man hole cover which we had to open and get inside whilst an old Patton tank was driven over us and we had to duck down into the man hole when the track touched our heads......very scary......I was worried in case my helmet got snagged on the rim of the hole which wasn`t very wide!!

I cannot remember what te camp was called unfortunately....but I seem to remember that it may have been run by the Belgian Army and that it was at the top of a huge hill, with a forest on the hills in the background which had a massive German Eagle carved out of it during WW2. Although attempts to hide it had been made this huge eagle could easily be seen still and was very eerie. The huge 1930`s barrack block had a swimming pool in the cellar and also had a massive German Eagle on the side of it, the swastika section of it being converted into a round window!! At the bottom of the mile or so driveway going back down the hill was a small grass airstrip......you could just imagine the German Storch`s landing there.......and we did balloon jumps from there...I did 5 in one day!! Sorry I cannot remember its name, it was back in the 1980`s, I wonder if the Panther is still there?

Cheers,

Tony

[Arniec]

I remember going on a molotov cocktail range in Germany where we had to throw our lighted bottles into a big black pit and at the bottom of it there was an old Panther and what looked like a couple of T-33`s. Across from that there was a man hole cover which we had to open and get inside whilst an old Patton tank was driven over us and we had to duck down into the man hole when the track touched our heads......very scary......I was worried in case my helmet got snagged on the rim of the hole which wasn`t very wide!!

I cannot remember what te camp was called unfortunately....but I seem to remember that it may have been run by the Belgian Army and that it was at the top of a huge hill, with a forest on the hills in the background which had a massive German Eagle carved out of it during WW2. Although attempts to hide it had been made this huge eagle could easily be seen still and was very eerie. The huge 1930`s barrack block had a swimming pool in the cellar and also had a massive German Eagle on the side of it, the swastika section of it being converted into a round window!! At the bottom of the mile or so driveway going back down the hill was a small grass airstrip......you could just imagine the German Storch`s landing there.......and we did balloon jumps from there...I did 5 in one day!! Sorry I cannot remember its name, it was back in the 1980`s, I wonder if the Panther is still there?

Cheers,

Tony

From what I read I think the camp was Vogelzang. I have been in the dutch army in 1990 on a camp there. I haven't seen the pit, but what you said about the swimmingpool brings back some memories. I was there to do some schooting with a MAG machinegun.

I have found a website about the camp

http://www2.kamp-vogelsang.be/index.php

Cheers Arnold

[Wayne rc]

Hi Folkbox, about the zimmerit, the type with horizontal grooves as mentioned by an earlier poster was the style that the MNH factory produced until sept 44, MAN and Daimler Benz had the more common style, ie the Dragon kit, by the way the 'British made' Panthers were made at MNH factory, along with some Jagdpanthers minus guns they were road tested on the autobahns. The Guards also used a Tiger 1, and this maybe be seen in some of the Cuckoo photo's..... The Tiger book about the British evaluation, is called 'Tiger 1 a British view' by David Fletcher..... Its a really good book and has an itemised breakdown of the machine, and intel reports tech drawings and plenty of photos... The main Tiger in the book is 131 that was captured in Tunisia and now is the famous Bovvy runner.... Quite a few other German Afv's were used by the Brits and US....esp sdkfz 251's. I have a pic in an old osprey PzIV book, of a well photographed (while in German hands) this Pz IV J was from 12th SS Pz div, captured by the Brits and had rough stars applied, I have pics of French post battle AFV dumps that show German kit with Allied stars applied....... The Russians used whole units of Panthers I used to think they were in Brit or US service because of white stars. The Russians even had a translated manual for those Panther Units..... The Russians used any captured vehicle and painted the wheels black for ID purposes.....They even rebuilt PzIII's into a type of assault gun SU 76 i.

[Malcolm Shaw]

The Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry also captured a Tiger 1, turret number 141 i think.

It was kept and used by them for a few days before being shipped off for evaluation.

They painted the 8th Armd Bgde fox on the front upper glacis and the hull rear.

There are some good photos on the missing-lynx site.

Malcolm

[Derbyeomanry]

When I was a lad many many moons ago,

I remember reading an old copy of the then after the battle magazine and it covered a Panther found in a scrappies in London, seems they built the pile of scrap over it after the war and as stuff was processed more was added, it was only many years later when the place was being closed and the final stuff got rid of, they found the panther at the bottom complete with its cut off gun lying beside it!

Mate of mine - Bernie Foggan found it. He was rooting round with a militaria collector called 'fast Eddie' looking for bits. Two furniture wagons were leaning over it. The barrel had been chopped off and a load of the armour removed. It had the same plate on the glacis as the tank museum example which I think says something to the effect that is was built by REME in Germany

[simon64]

As far as I can tell Bovingtons Panther G was 1 of 10 built by the R.E.M.E. after the war from part finished venicles found. The tanks were compleated by german workers from the original factories for testing and technological research.

The Panther found at the scrap yard was brought by a german (a panther crew man I think) and restored. This is the 1 that was recently confiscated by the german police. Bet they needed new underware after bumping into that 1...