kitnut617 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Hello Dave, I'm with Carlos here, thanks for the offer. I'm looking for u/c details, the manual goes a long way towards that but some photos would be great. Side-on views of the wheels and as many details of the legs as possible if it's not to much trouble. Also, the rear of the nacelles around the exhaust pipes please. I can PM you my email addy if it's easier to send pics that way. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Hi Robert.. That won't be a problem.. in fact I may have shots of both those areas already. If not.. I'm at Brooklands most Wednesdays so I'll get them soon for you. Thinking about it, we keep plugs in the jetpipes to stop birds nesting (the engines are still live) so I'll retake those shots with the plugs out ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitnut617 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 (edited) Thanks mate! Could you get a few dimensions too please, like diameter of the exhaust pipe and diameter of the u/c legs etc. Wheel size would be good too. I'm re-reading my copy of 'Project Cancelled', there's a mention of an maritime Vanguard powered by Tynes, would you have anything else about that as there's nothing more than the mention in the book. Edited July 24, 2010 by kitnut617 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Hi Robert.. Okey doh.. I'd better write all these things down otherwise I'm sure to forget something! Yeh.. that 'Projects Cancelled' book is full of interesting snippets. Sadly, I can't remember ever hearing it mentioned at Brooklands though I'll ask some of the 'oldies' next week Carlos.. A mate of mine who's a regular here found this thread and wondered if the 'wrinkle' you refer to might be the join of the double-bubble?? I may have that documented somewhere but it will be just as easy for me to measure the distance between 'it' and the bottom of the window next time I go:-) ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted July 24, 2010 Author Share Posted July 24, 2010 Carlos..A mate of mine who's a regular here found this thread and wondered if the 'wrinkle' you refer to might be the join of the double-bubble?? I may have that documented somewhere but it will be just as easy for me to measure the distance between 'it' and the bottom of the window next time I go:-) ATB DaveB Hi Dave, Yes, that's it. In my idea it was the best match for "vinco" in Google's Portuguese-->English dictionary. Thanks, I'll wait for your measure. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Hi Carlos.. OK.. that's cool. I'll get the information for you this coming week;-) ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Hi Guy's.. A busy day at the museum today as the schools are off and everyone seems to be on holiday! However, I managed to get the info you wanted before it got too busy. Carlos.. The distance from the bottom of the passenger window to the double bubble is 58.6cm +/- Robert.. The top part of the front gear leg is 20cm across .. the lower part (not the oleo) is 16cm Main gear leg is 21cm across Front wheel is 46cm across.. 84cm inc tyre Main wheels are 60cm across.. 170cm inc tyre Exaust diameter.. The jetpipes look like two sets of twin pipes on each side but they're actually not quite like that. Imagine the Vanguard shape.. the double bubble almost like a number 8 but with a flat centre.. this is how the jetpipes look. I've taken shots to show what I mean (and of the gear and gear bays which I'll upload when I've taken them off the camera) but basically, each side is 30.5cm wide.. 62cm in total. I'll PM you a link when the shots are uploaded;-) ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 Hi Dave, Thank you once more. I have all the information I need to start cutting plastic! Later I will have other demands, for sure :-) Would you share the photos also with me? Cheers, Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitnut617 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Excellent stuff Dave and I look forward to seeing the photos, many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Hi Guy's.. Rgr and no problem with the phots. I'll do my best to get them to you both either later this evening or tomorrow at the latest Anything else I can help you with, don't be afraid to ask There's nothing I'd like to see more than a new Vanguard model/s and I'm looking forward to seeing both of yours when completed. ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hi Chaps.. Lets see if this works.. 16 shots in a single zip file approx 23mb Vanguard1 ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hi Dave, Great pics, I'm sure they will prove very useful. I have another question regarding the windows. Were them flush with the surface or (as it seems to be from some photos both of the Vanguard and of Merchantman blanks) were they placed a little inside? This would have implications from a modeling point of view, as the plastic of the kit is very thin (0.5mm) and can be made even thinner allowing a sheet of transparent plastic to be glued from the inside. Cheers Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hi Carlos If the Merchantman blanks are representative.. they're as near as damn it flush. On the Merchantman, there's only a tiny lip (the depth of the outer fuse skin) so.. if the kit could be made just a little thinner than .5mm along the window line, I think you'd be there or thereabouts. With no airliners left to check against, I can look at the Viscount next week (same windows) to see if they were ridged to fit flush with the outer skin. ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitnut617 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Wonderful photos Dave, much appreciated and they will definitely help with creating some scatch built u/c gear. The main wheels look a bit like 737 wheels (as I suspected but need to check with the sizes you gave earlier), which was what I planned to use on my kits, the front wheel I will have to get a bit creative I think LOL. Thanks for taking the time with the photos and measurements. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share Posted July 29, 2010 I can look at the Viscount next week (same windows) to see if they were ridged to fit flush with the outer skin. I'm glad you told me that because I have a Viscount photo showing what seems to be that tiny lip. Or only an ilusion caused by the visibility of the rubber sealing the double paned windows. I will be out next week so I thank you in advance for any more info. Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hi Carlos That's spot on mate and identical to the Vanguard. Quickly looking through some old shots I have on this pc, I've found one taken by a mate just before we did an engine run (I'm the one on the steps opening the nacelle to bleed engine 4's fuel line). Feel free to screengrab this if you need to zoom but it confirms the same arrangement as the Viscount;-) ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryrussell Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) Hi Carlos I'm Dave's mate he mentioned and have been lurking for a long time but decided to join up To confirm all what dave says, the Vangurd did indeed have Viscount windows and this was specified by BEA at the oustet. The reason they were so big goes back to the early days of the Viscount design and Vickers obsession with circles and elipses to aid strength. The minimum specified size of an emergency exit was 26x19 inches. Vickers saw this as the max and min radius of an elipse and so built the windows that size. In the earliest Viscount all twenty windows were emergency exits, although only three each side could be opened from outside. This was soon reduced to three each side. There is your confirmation of the Vanguards being the same as if they were any smaller there would be emergency over wing doors instead of opening windows. Non flush windows were very common for this period and one of the many reasons why decalled windows never look right. This was simply the window pane overlapped on the inside so the pressure pushed it against the structure. It woul be nice if you do get a chance to have a bit of info on the model like the price, where to buy it from and perhaps a pic or two?? The TCA Cocpit mock up mentioned in an earlier post as at being at the Science Museum years ago, went up to the Scottish Museum at east Fortune. ATB Garry Edited July 30, 2010 by garryrussell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitnut617 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Can you give a little info pleas on the Vac form model like the price, where to buy it from and perhaps a pic or two?? ATB Garry The vacform I have is a 1/72 scale kit, fairly basic (there's no u/c or props [just the spinners]) and is made by Gene Hooker in the States. I bought three of them a few years ago and one came with TCA decals but IIRC Gene said I had one of the last decal sheets he had. There's a velom printed windscreen though and you get things like a 24" wooden rule to make a spar with (nice touch I thought), also quite a comprehensive instruction sheet. There's two way to get these kits, one is direct to Gene and the other used to be through Old Model Kits website but a quick look doesn't show it now. I've got to go down to where the stash is stored sometime in the next week or so to hunt out something else so when I'm down there, I'll take some photos of the kits I have and I'll search through my emails for the contact address to Gene Hooker (he is/was the owner of Classic Airlines Logos) and I have a 1/72 C-133 vacform kit and 1/72 XC-99 vacform conversion kit of his too. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryrussell Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Thanks for that Robert ATB Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hi Garry, I'm glad you joined. The more Vanguard experts the better! I have the same kit as Robert, and already took a few photos that needs resizing to post here. I'll try to do it later. Cheers, Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryrussell Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hi Carlos Look forward to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 The TCA Cocpit mock up mentioned in an earlier post as at being at the Science Museum years ago, went up to the Scottish Museum at east Fortune. We have one in the Strat Chamber at Brooklands though I've no idea if it's the same one. One thing I DO know is that it had to be cut in half to fit on the lorry that brought it here It's sat unloved in a corner along with 3 Concorde galleys and a One-Eleven sim that resembles a giant Meccano kit. I'll draw the key and get some shots at some point ATB DaveB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryrussell Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hi Dave The one you have I think is the Red Square 951 from Bournemouth The Science Museum/east Fortune was a wooden mock up made so TCA pilots could sit in it and see if everything was in the right place...it was non functioning.....last pic of this sequence http://www.vickersvanguard.net/page83.html ATB Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 Here are some photos of the the kit. As you can see by the 30cm ruler this is a really BIG kit, vacuformed over male moulds. The plastic is thin (0.5mm) and void of any surface detail. The fuselage and wing moulds were placed over blocks before vacuforming, so the edges are straight and not indistinct as in some other male moulded vacs. I haven't cut the fuselage yet but from measures it seems dimensionally accurate. This is clearly a kit from a "old school" modeller. The instructions are very complete and guide the modeller in the process of making a very strong structure in balsa. In my opinion it is overkill, but because of the thin plastic some structure must be made. The instructions also have templates for positioning engine nacelles and tail planes, and 1/72 drawings with panel lines. On this, I must say that I prefer a completely "naked" surface over a surface with indistinct or over scale panel demarcations (thinking Broplan here). Of course, Dynavector or Aircraft in Miniature or Rareplane quality would be better, just to name a few good ones. As you can see by the photos this is not a weekender, but I think that with some time and care a great model can be made of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garryrussell Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Impressive Looks almost like it could be a balsa structure skined in plastic The wings, tail and taiplane looks like they will need a lot of work but it's not always easy to see on photo's Quality seems to be similar to Airways but the shape more accurate. Should look great when it has some deatil and livery on it Is it expensive??? I sympathise with your window dilema......I am just about to start cutting out on an S&M Viscount.........you have more but mine are thick plastic and 1/144 I'm also, in the background, doing a Glencoe Viscount 700 and another coverted to 800 which means moving all the windows, plus extra windows and the kits are too small and the wrong shape so all need opening out The curse of the Vickers cabin Thanks for the pics ATB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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