goose Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hi this is a question about harriers operating during falklands conflict. What colour should the interior of the intake and sides of fan be painted, my academy gr3 says white &there sea harrier says nothing. im thinking both white? any sudgestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 For the Sea Harrier, the Extra Dark Sea Grey ones had the entire intake painted Extra dark sea grey. The GR3s would be dark sea grey in the forward section and light grey/aluminium in the rear (Behind the auxilliary inlet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Thanks dave. what about "sorry if description is iffy", on the kits you have the fan blades siting in a conical shape what colour would this be? i know what colour for the blades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG899 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hi Goose, GR3s - The whole of the starboard intake inside, including the 'conical bit' in which the fan sits is Dark Green, while the whole of the port side intake interior is Dark Sea Grey; the outer surface colours being taken all the way in. SHARs - After they had their white undersides overpainted all intake interior surfaces are Extra Dark Sea Grey, including the conical bit. In the original EDSG/White scheme, the white undersurface colour was overlapped into the lower intake interior by about 4" and the fuselage side's white went inside the intake about 10" stopping at the rear end of the bleed door. HTH. If you drop me a PM with your e-mail in it I'll send you some more stuff back to help you with the Falklands SHARs and GR3s. Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 thats helpfull thanks pm on way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) GR3s - The whole of the starboard intake inside, including the 'conical bit' in which the fan sits is Dark Green, while the whole of the port side intake interior is Dark Sea Grey; the outer surface colours being taken all the way in. Nick, Whilst I know you have researched these aiurcraft in depth, and we agree on the Shars, I have to disagree on this one. Have a look at this shot on Hermes, and in particular the starboard intake, and you can see the camo scheme only seems to go back as far as the feed from the auxilliary intakes Edited January 5, 2010 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG899 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) Hi Dave, GR3s... I know what you mean, I've puzzled long and hard on this one as some photos, like the one you've posted, show the intake interiors to look much lighter in colour, which I'm putting down to weathering... Think how white an FA2 intake isn't. However, I'm using the offical HS/BAe drawings for the GR1 and GR3 and a GR3 AP as my sources... "Internal intake structure surrounding depression doors to be colour finished as remainder of intake... Camouflage colours to extend full depth of intake". It's also interesting to note that in the photos of GR3s where the interior looks lighter than normal DSG, its always the port intake that looks lighter; the effect is never so pronounced on the starboard (dark green) side which always looks the darker side; even in the above shot. Many head on shots of GR3s without the FOD guards in place are taken with the engine running and the aux doors open, which has the effect of putting a lighter ring of colour/shade into the intakes and so on the photo. This coincides with the start of the rear bellmouth section and so can give the impression that the area directly in front of the fan is a lighter colour. Of course, someone will now prove things to be otherwise but, until they do, I'd suggest sticking with dk green inside the whole of the stbd intake and DSG inside the whole of the port one when it comes to GR3s. Cheers, Nick Edited January 5, 2010 by NG899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete T Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I have to agree with Dave Fleming. I worked on the Harrier GR3 and the rear area of the intake was always LAG or lighter, as on this example. I have no recollection of the camo grey or green extending all the way into the intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG899 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hi Pete, I knew it, thanks for that! Do you have any photos from your time with the Harriers that you could share with us all? I think your photo depicts restored GR3 XW924 now in 3 Sqn markings at Cottesmore, yes? I have some 35mm pictures of XZ997 in its 4 Sqn markings taken when it was still on the floor in the RAFM Hendon a few years back that, despite the dust inside the intakes, clearly has the DGrn / DSG split, even on the bit just ahead of the fan. A colour shot dated 1988 in Denis Calvert's Ian Allen AI Special book on the Harrier (lower p22) also shows the DG/DSG split, which SIG member and, like yourself fellow ex-Harrier groundcrew member - Dennis Robinson - has also confirmed from his time with the a/c in the mid-late 70s. Navy SHARs only started to get lighter coloured intakes with the MSG/BG scheme and then with the DSG scheme post-Falklands, as a way to try and lessen the darkness of the a/c's 'elephant ears' silhouette when viewed from head-on. Of course, the answer could be that depending on when, where and which finish - gloss/matt - the a/c had, then the intake interiors would have been different colours... I think this one could run! Cheers for now, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 My suspicion is those that had the light grey undersides initially had the 'lip' like in Pete's photos (AV-8As were the same) and that those delivered or repainted at depot in full camo had the deeper intales. Also, I wonder if it depended on the interpretation of 'full depth of intake' - back to the fan or back to the auxilliary inlets. XZ993 in Aeroguide 12 looks lighter to the rear of the inlets on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Time for a scoot through my refs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG899 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) Hi Dave and Pete, Just joined photobucket so I can get these uploaded! (I dunno, the things I'm doing on my last day of leave!) Anyway, here's a dusty dark green stbd intake of XZ997 at Hendon in June 2002... And here's the dusty DSG port side... No fan just a big blanking plate at the end! Just checked the Aeroguide as you mentioned Dave (p11) and, if it's grey, I'd personally go with DSG on both sides for the aft portion of the intake mouth as, tonally, there's not much difference with the other areas of the port intake. The HS drawings I have referring to full colour depth in the intakes are GR1 drawings, so are in the early DG/DSG/LAG scheme, the lip on the intake insides only rolling back in some 4" as did the white on the early SHARs' EDSG/W scheme. So, any subsequent over-/re-painting would have only been over the roll back. On many 3-colour GR1s/3s even the rollback didn't happen, the LAG stopping at the intake rim's centre-line so to speak. I hope these uploads work. Back to bashing a 48th scale Monogram GR1 into P1127 XP831, there's plastic/milliput shavings and dust everywhere...! Cheers, Nick Edited January 5, 2010 by NG899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete T Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) Nick Yes thats XW924 before it moved to Coningsby. As for photos I don't have many, mainly because having a camera on an airbase in Germany in the 1980's was a sure fire way to get in to trouble!! However- Apologies for the quality they are like me getting on a bit!! RAF Gutersloh 1987 XZ965 'AM' 3 Sqn, 4 Site, Exercise Crusader 80, Sennelager Range. XV 738 4 Sqn RAF Finningley Air Show 1983? I may have a couple more but I will need to find the Negs. Edited January 5, 2010 by Pete T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I hope this works, back to bashing a 48th scale Monogram GR1 into P1127 XP831, there's plastic/milliput shavings and dust everywhere...! With two Airfix 48th scale SHAR's on finals around the work-bench I'm finding this thread facinating As for the GR1 to P1127; would love to see your progress on that one Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG899 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 OK Col, check out new thread... What options are your SHARs being finished in? Why not start a new thread with those too? Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete T Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 My suspicion is those that had the light grey undersides initially had the 'lip' like in Pete's photos (AV-8As were the same) and that those delivered or repainted at depot in full camo had the deeper intales. I would readily agree with that. Although there was uniformity in camouflage patterns and colours, it was not unusual to see quite a difference in finish between aircraft repainted at unit level and back at St Athan. It is therefore possible that this simply came down to an individual sprayer and finishers understanding of what the guidelines required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Just joined photobucket Cheers, Nick That's as good a New Years message as I've heard!!!! Time to start posting Nick!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 OK Col, check out new thread...What options are your SHARs being finished in? Why not start a new thread with those too? Cool, look forward to it. Torn between finishing the FRS-1 as either XZ450 while she was the Sea Eagle test aircraft or an early two-tone 800 NAS bird. Unless I find 700A Flight decals, in which case that scheme wins and I'll use the Tamiya kit for one of the others. The F/A-2 was going to be ZD613 as she appeared half way through conversion while still wearing the 50th anniversary scheme with a zinc-chromate patchwork over the reworked areas but not so sure now. Be a while before I can start a WIP thread as I'm still researching what work needs to be done and hacking out the bits that need improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG899 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Col, Aeromaster did the 700A Sqn scheme in 48th; Hannants maybe? Or Model Alliance sheet MA-48 153, IIRC. Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Col, Aeromaster did the 700A Sqn scheme in 48th; Hannants maybe? Or Model Alliance sheet MA-48 153, IIRC. Excellent! Thanks Nick, I'll have a look see if anyone has those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Excellent! Thanks Nick, I'll have a look see if anyone has those. http://www.theaviationworkshop.co.uk/decal...mier/MA-153.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Cracking cheers Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The original Kit Builder Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Funnily enough, I've recently commented on the WWII board that I find it amazing how even well documented and relatively recent aircraft have many fine points of detail wherein there is much room for discussion. Nice to see it runs to more up-to-date items, as well! Like Pete T, I've hads the dubious privelege of working on Harriers at St Athan from T2's and GR3's right through to GR7 and 7A and I've also been a Harrier Taxi-pilot on the Dummy Deck at Culdrose and I have never seen a British Harrier where the inner part of the intake, behind the aux doors, was anything other than light aircraft grey or, more recently, white. They do certainly get dirty, however, and I have seen great variation in the application of the paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG899 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) Hi Kit Builder, I hope you don't mind me asking but how far back does your time with GR3s go? My reason for asking is that Goose was looking for info on Falklands War period a/c and all refs I have from the early 70s to mid-80s on GR3s show non-LAG interiors. LAG only seems to have come in first with the DSG SHARs and then with the Match Cote GR3s and, of course with the GR5s and 7s. Many of the Culdrose a/c may have been repainted as per RN SHAR a/c with LAG or white intake interiors more recently. This pic of a 233 OCU GR3 - XZ138/K - at Lossie in 1986 backs up the (up until mid/late-80s?) split finish... Cheers for now, Nick Edited January 5, 2010 by NG899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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