Trumpy 1/32nd Buccaneer!

[Coolcat]

The Buccaneer has been rumoured for a long time but it hasn't been "listed" - and it still isn't listed if you look at Trumpeter's catalogue.

You might also be interested to read recent comments on the LSP forum. It is pretty evident that "Mr.Song" does not represent Trumpeter at all and he appears to be a modeller who is simply trying to generate gossip. He has been asked to confirm the scale of the forthcoming Buccaneer and he hasn't done so, which obviously means he doesn't know. I think we will have to wait until Trumpeter announce the kit to know for certain what scale the Buccaneer will be, but let's hope that it is indeed 32nd scale.

[daz greenwood]

Now, if the Bucc's USN /USMC counterpart (you know the one) gets the same love, I shall be rather happy (understatement!)

Joel

Yes when are we gonna see the A-6 family? The Brick's counterpart.

[Plastic Bonsai]

... It is pretty evident that "Mr.Song" does not represent Trumpeter at all and he appears to be a modeller who is simply trying to generate gossip. He has been asked to confirm the scale of the forthcoming Buccaneer and he hasn't done so, which obviously means he doesn't know. ..

Well that is a possibility but somebody somewhere has a very fine model of a Bucc in 1/48th or excellent Photoshop skills. Without doubt he has generated interest which is not a bad thing. I don't think there is anything to loose by posting data, ideas, helpful criticisms etc on this or any other putative project for that matter. I marvel at the collective knowledge in this forum and if it can be used by any model maker to get the product more accurate then so much the better for all.

If nothing comes of it then we Brits can cope with dissapointment as we are kind of used to it. :shithappens:

I wouldn't mind a heads-up on the Revell 1/32 Hawk either and I've seen on LSP that the A-6 family is on its way.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Plastic Bonsai

[CornishRebel]

I love the Buccaneer...and hope to get my hands on one of these when it comes out...lovely!! I've got an Airfix 1/48 Bucc knocking around in the stash...but I want a Neomega cockpit for it.

My late Father was one of the Navy's evaluation team on the NA.39, and in my younger days, i was always surrounded by 'Bucc' crews....We knew the guys who tried to bomb the Torrey Canyon.

I always remember being told that the best thing a Bucc could do was fly over water, at 10 feet, at 400+ knots...and if you pushed the stick forward, the 'ground effect' pushed back, and wouldn't let you crash...one of the reasons the bucc was such a great anti-shipping aircraft.

All the best,

Phil

[Heraldcoupe]

It is pretty evident that "Mr.Song" does not represent Trumpeter at all and he appears to be a modeller who is simply trying to generate gossip.

[song]

Who m i? not important than the Bucc appear to modeller...right?

enjoy happy model , enjoy life..my first language not english,so i can`t said more,just thank you view my work.

[pigsty]

In my stint in the Brough Aerodynamics department I heard that the area ruling was incorrect and it could have reduced the phenomally low drag even further with re-shapingand I think an even bigger avionics bay. Make no mistake one of the key features of this aircraft is its low profile drag - more than half that of other airframes and a lot lower than it's replacement. This is why it could buddy pack it's replacement as well as spiking for them and then going even further in and delivering it's own payload. I did hear that they called themselves "The Usherettes".

Area ruling appears counter intuitive and not many people believe what the numbers show. Hawkers area ruled a Hunter F Mk 4/5 and it barely showed and they found it made no difference drag wise. Along comes the T Mk 7 and it was faster than the Mk 6 and FGA 9 despite their more powerful engines because that great big nose gave a better area ruling and reduced drag. The discoverer of the Area Rule, Dr Richard Whitcombe (he of the winglets fame) area ruled the Citation X , all lumps and bumps and it has a terrific range and needs dive brakes on descent as it's that slippery.

Does low drag make a difference - well in the Buccs case you had 1000(+)nm strike range, a very high airspeed at low level and despite the lack of reheat in a dive nothing manned with wings on it could catch you.

If memory serves, the area rule is applied for transonic drag reduction - it helps overcome the drag rise that results from compression of the airflow at near-sonic speeds. The effect well below and well above that zone is much less marked. Of course, all your examples are transonic aircraft, and the Buccaneer's working environment was the transonic zone, but for an aircraft that might spend its whole life supersonic, other considerations would apply. Which is one reason why the SR-71 doesn't have obvious area-ruling. (Another is that aerodynamic design has got a lot more subtle than the first generation, where the method was apparently to design the aircraft, measure the drag, and add bumps to taste. Eg the F-102.)

[TonyT]

The Buccaneer has been rumoured for a long time but it hasn't been "listed" - and it still isn't listed if you look at Trumpeter's catalogue.

You might also be interested to read recent comments on the LSP forum. It is pretty evident that "Mr.Song" does not represent Trumpeter at all and he appears to be a modeller who is simply trying to generate gossip. He has been asked to confirm the scale of the forthcoming Buccaneer and he hasn't done so, which obviously means he doesn't know. I think we will have to wait until Trumpeter announce the kit to know for certain what scale the Buccaneer will be, but let's hope that it is indeed 32nd scale.

Well as it was confirmed by Captn whatever his name was from the IPMS Phillipines over the Jaguar and who deal with Trumpeter direct and also get the first test shots of the kits that come out, I hate to tell you but alas I think you are wrong!! The reason they are posting these, including the Jaguar are to get reactions and see what the market response will be, it also allows corrections as in the Jaguars case to be made. To build a kit of an aircraft you have never seen must be difficult, and to post on UK forums allows information and images to be sourced that would not be available to them elsewhere....

EDIT>>

For your first post, it was both based on a lack of information as to what has been posted here before and innacurate, Incidently, why tell your rival companies your planes for scales etc if you are still not that far advanced, that would be commercial suicide....... nice start

Please Mr Song can we see more

Edited January 6, 2010 by TonyT

[daz greenwood]

Well said Tony.

[Flying Penguin]

The Buccaneer has been rumoured for a long time but it hasn't been "listed" - and it still isn't listed if you look at Trumpeter's catalogue.

You might also be interested to read recent comments on the LSP forum. It is pretty evident that "Mr.Song" does not represent Trumpeter at all and he appears to be a modeller who is simply trying to generate gossip. He has been asked to confirm the scale of the forthcoming Buccaneer and he hasn't done so, which obviously means he doesn't know. I think we will have to wait until Trumpeter announce the kit to know for certain what scale the Buccaneer will be, but let's hope that it is indeed 32nd scale.

Hello Chox!

Jamie

[Edgar]

You might also be interested to read recent comments on the LSP forum. It is pretty evident that "Mr.Song" does not represent Trumpeter at all and he appears to be a modeller who is simply trying to generate gossip. He has been asked to confirm the scale of the forthcoming Buccaneer and he hasn't done so, which obviously means he doesn't know. I think we will have to wait until Trumpeter announce the kit to know for certain what scale the Buccaneer will be, but let's hope that it is indeed 32nd scale.

Interesting that you can tell so much from modellers' gossip. For some time, now, I've been talking to Mr. Song, and he's told me who he is, and what his work involves, but that is his business, and, if and when he's ready to reveal anything, you'll be told. Making provocative (and wildly inaccurate) statements is hardly the way to engender a useful working relationship with a foreign company, with a totally different culture and work ethic from ours. Trust is extremely difficult to gain, and bloody easy to lose; I've offered my help, in any way that I can, and I'll stick by that promise. I've always held that I'll trust someone, until he, or she, lets me down, and I've experienced more happy times, than bitter disappointments, because of it.

Back on the Buccaneer vein, Mr. Song was unaware of the different wingtips, and I've only been able to find a possible drawing of the short version in a (probably wrong, ironically) magazine. Before I pass the information on, can anyone please confirm who used, when, and how, the two different tips? I don't want to give him duff information.

Edgar

[AnonymousAA72]

Interesting that you can tell so much from modellers' gossip. For some time, now, I've been talking to Mr. Song, and he's told me who he is, and what his work involves, but that is his business, and, if and when he's ready to reveal anything, you'll be told. Making provocative (and wildly inaccurate) statements is hardly the way to engender a useful working relationship with a foreign company, with a totally different culture and work ethic from ours. Trust is extremely difficult to gain, and bloody easy to lose; I've offered my help, in any way that I can, and I'll stick by that promise. I've always held that I'll trust someone, until he, or she, lets me down, and I've experienced more happy times, than bitter disappointments, because of it.

Back on the Buccaneer vein, Mr. Song was unaware of the different wingtips, and I've only been able to find a possible drawing of the short version in a (probably wrong, ironically) magazine. Before I pass the information on, can anyone please confirm who used, when, and how, the two different tips? I don't want to give him duff information.

Edgar

Hi Edgar, This site gives individual airframe histories....its a must for Mr Song....

Buccaneers

The wing Mod was 1736 there are notes in the technical specifications

Edited January 6, 2010 by Bill Clark

[TonyT]

Edgar asking some ex bucc pilots

will let you know

[Greg B]

The Buccaneer has been rumoured for a long time but it hasn't been "listed" - and it still isn't listed if you look at Trumpeter's catalogue.

You might also be interested to read recent comments on the LSP forum. It is pretty evident that "Mr.Song" does not represent Trumpeter at all and he appears to be a modeller who is simply trying to generate gossip. He has been asked to confirm the scale of the forthcoming Buccaneer and he hasn't done so, which obviously means he doesn't know. I think we will have to wait until Trumpeter announce the kit to know for certain what scale the Buccaneer will be, but let's hope that it is indeed 32nd scale.

Is that you again Timmy? I really hope so it will be a short visit again eh?

Interesting link to Cybermodeler here on who Mr Song is and also a new one for me, details of an intended release of A-1 Skyraiders in 1/32. Oh, life just gets better!

Link

[Mike]

Is that you again Timmy? I really hope so it will be a short visit again eh?

If it is him, we'll give you the pleasure this time

[Edgar]

Hi Edgar, This site gives individual airframe histories....its a must for Mr Song....

The wing Mod was 1736 there are notes in the technical specifications

Thanks, Bill, it "sort of" confirms my memory that it was done during the RAF's usage, to ease possible damage due to the low-level work they were doing. I remember an ex-boss telling me how he used to hitch lifts in Canberras, when they were practising low-flying by one pilot dropping down, until the other pilot saw his exhausts rippling the sea's surface, then joining him at that level; when doing this, one day, a Buccaneer flew beneath them, with the observer giving them the V sign, as they passed. Somebody told me that they reckoned that the only thing that flew lower than a Buccaneer was a submarine.

Edgar

P.S. I've been onto LSP, and looked at the Buccaneer thread, finding that only one person (a certain "Chox" aka Mr. Tim Laming, who, it seems, cannot refrain from the standard journalistic ploy of never letting the truth get in the way of a good story) has called Mr. Song's integrity into question, for which he's been slapped down, by one of the administrators, for being "extraordinarily rude."

[TonyT]

Edgar so far

Buccaneer Wingtips

The Buccaneer S1 and S2 had wingtips of different shapes (seem to remember that the S1's were rounded and the S2's were more swept). When I was on "A" Sqn at A&AEE (as a nav, not a pilot) we did some handling trials on XV350, an S2, retro-fitted with S1 wingtips. This was during Jun, Jul and Aug 1984. Sad to say, I cannot remember the reasons for or the outcome of the trial but I don't think it came to anything.

[AnonymousAA72]

Edgar so far

Quite a few S2's had the S1 type rounded wing tips too Tony - see my post above about Mod 1736

[Av8fan]

Edgar,

I've seen those comments Re Mr. Song and others re the Mosquito.

Now, the review on LSP of the Harrier by Mr. Roof has comments from Capt Dave Mason IPMS Philippines.

If Mr. Song was not on the up and up, from what I have read of Mr. Mason's posts, I'd think he would have said something. No?

Anyhow,

Hopefully 2010 is a good year (although to be honest I am starting to be a bit concerned) and I will be able to get one of these.

[TonyT]

More

This may explain things.

GW1.

Quote:

Within 3 days the teams at RAF Lossiemouth had prepared six aircraft (newly painted desert pink, fitted with new secure radios, old-style S.1 wingtips for a smoother ride over the flat desert floor.

To answer your query re wingtips, they were fitted mostly 1989 onwards to cabs that had undergone the Avionics upgrade - ASR1012, Mod 1736. The short tips reduced wing-loading, particularly whilst pulling 6G at 30 feet, with the throttle levers through the panel... allegedly... and therefore extended the fatigue life. Note that the cabs did not return from Avionics upgrade with the shorter tips; they were fitted later, e.g., XV161 - 12 Sqn "AF" returned to Lossie/12 late '87 - early '88, but was not fitted with the short tips until sometime in '89.

Thanks Bill just saw it

[Dave Fleming]

Likewise the Tornado, none of the ex Tornado boys I worked with referred to it as anything but the "Tonka" or "Tornado", again, the only people I'd ever heard call the Tornado the "Fin" are enthusiasts/modellers.

It seems to have swapped around - back in the early 80s, all the RAF guys called it the Fun, whereas the guys hanging over the fence called it the Tonka. Maybe they all grew up and got jobs in the RAF?

[Edgar]

It's beginning to look as though I have a better reason, than just my age, for getting confused. Is this, as I suspect, the wider tip? If so, the photographs, that I have, of "Guinness Girl" appear to show the same style, which is at variance with Tony's information, unless 1) S.2 wingtips had been even wider, or 2) some of the Gulf War S.2s had wide tips, and some had narrow; as far as I know, apart from some prudish officer having a black drape painted over GG's chestal area, she was a straight preservation job.

Edgar

Edited January 6, 2010 by Edgar

[DamienB]

The Buccaneer has been rumoured for a long time but it hasn't been "listed" - and it still isn't listed if you look at Trumpeter's catalogue.

You might also be interested to read recent comments on the LSP forum. It is pretty evident that "Mr.Song" does not represent Trumpeter at all and he appears to be a modeller who is simply trying to generate gossip. He has been asked to confirm the scale of the forthcoming Buccaneer and he hasn't done so, which obviously means he doesn't know. I think we will have to wait until Trumpeter announce the kit to know for certain what scale the Buccaneer will be, but let's hope that it is indeed 32nd scale.

Weren't you banned from this forum, Choxxy baby?

Incidentally, BAE Brough's Heritage department will have all the Buccaneer drawings any kit manufacturer could possibly ever want. No need trawling about at random on the internet - just go to the source.

Phone: +44 1482 667121 and ask for Heritage department. Don't know what days they are about - probably Tues or Thurs only judging by BAE's other heritage depts.

[Wez]

It's beginning to look as though I have a better reason, than just my age, for getting confused. Is this, as I suspect, the wider tip? If so, the photographs, that I have, of "Guinness Girl" appear to show the same style, which is at variance with Tony's information, unless 1) S.2 wingtips had been even wider, or 2) some of the Gulf War S.2s had wide tips, and some had narrow; as far as I know, apart from some prudish officer having a black drape painted over GG's chestal area, she was a straight preservation job.

Edgar

Edgar,

Your pictures show the standard S.2 wingtips, the S.1 wingtips are curved outboard (think rounded) rather than swept outboard like those in your pictures.

A mate of mine who was an old Bucc' hand said that they'd fitted the S.1 tips for use in the Gulf and then removed at a suitable point on their return. He said that whilst the rounded ones were better for their role in the desert, the standard ones were better for normal use - dunno if this was true or not but it makes sense. This would explain why GG has the standard tips post Gulf.

Regards

Wez

[Darius at Home]

If it is him, we'll give you the pleasure this time

That would explain the obnoxious PMs I got from "Coolcat" after my Sanger Shackleton AEW2 post last year.

Darius