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Jon Kunac-Tabinor

Hobbyboss 1/48th Tornado

184 posts in this topic

You have my deep admiration on this build and can't wait for the final product. You will have a unique model at the end of the process of which you can be proud.

Having said that it is deeply disappointing that a brand new, state of the art kit seems to be so way off the mark and makes me wonder whether an Italeri or Airfix kit is still the way forward?

MH

I wonder how many modellers not as experienced as Jon will,on opening the HB Box will go out & buy aftermarket bit's to correct HB's mistakes rather than trying to takle what Jon has done here,spending the guts of £80!

The HB kit is,what, £40? Considering you can pick up an Italarai one for around £10-£15 & Paragon or 2Mikes set for around £30-£35,I'd be more inclined to go for the latter!!

More bang for your buck IMHO!

Merv

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Hi Jon,

Great work in amending all those listed issues - and very quickly done as well! However, there's one shape issue that seems to still be glaring out at me. And unfortunately your good work with amending the lower canopy area & correcting the tops of the intakes seems to be highlighting it. To my eyes, looking at the real thing, there is no 90 degree square shape on the top of the fuselage between the area of the Navs lower canopy sill & the inner intake wall (if that makes sense?!) If you look at the following pics on Airliners net....

...to me at least the upper fuselage on the kit is much too square, the real thing having much more of a gentler blended curve up into the lower canopy, & this makes the inside of the kits intakes appear much too close to the fuselage. You can also see it in the pic of the real jet in the comparison side on pics of the noses that you posted.

The top of the kit's intakes also are below the fuselage line alongside the Nav's canopy, whereas the second linked pic shows there to be a pronounced 'triangle' of inner intake wall above the fuselage that is curving & blending down to meet the sides - it also looks like the area there is slanting forwards whereas the kit pieces appear to be dead flat?

It's getting late & I know that I'm not putting this into words very well, but if you compare your pics to those on A.net you may see what I'm getting at? This is in no way a crticism of your tremendous work in trying to correct what appears to be a pretty woeful kit - especially at the price! I think I'm going to stick with my Revell 1/72nd ones!!

Cheers

Keef

Hi Keef - you know what - your are right.

I had actually tried to round off the top of the forward fuselage ( forgot to mention that didnt I!!) but it seems that it was not enough. I had my suspicions about the top by the pilots portion of the canopy, but these pics seems to show it to be far more curvy on top, and stretching back further. Its funny how deceptive the front fusleage on this beast is!

I can also see an error I've made with the intakes that needs sorting out - I'll post a fix later :)

I'm at work at the moment, but I shall take a look when I get home and see what can be done. These pics also highlight the fact that the canopy fairing i've added is a smooth flair pout rather than as I have done, whcih is more a rounded toped with flat side.

More work me thinks!!

Cheers for this - its exactly the kind of feedback that I hoped we'd see.

cheers

Jonners

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PS here's what the intakes will look like on the model from front on. Oh for some intake trunking!!!!

intakeshowthrough.jpg

Were are the intake ramps?, I would have prefered a short intake tunel instead of the gaping hole that this kit has, Don't think I've ever build Tornado kit were you can see the wings though the intake.

I think covers maybe needed.

Shaun.

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Everything I see about this model convinces me that I'm right to give it a miss. £50 odd for a 2009 supposedly state of the art model & we end up with this :angrysoapbox.sml: .

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Cracking work Jon - this is really coming together.

Paul

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Is it me or does the wing glove box look too fat & the center look too low?...

sideview.jpg

BOZ107B.jpg

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Jon

I admire your approach to this kit!! It has helped me decide that my more accurate Italeri kits are going to just get the Paragon Treatment. Who would have ever guessed we would say an Italeri kit is more accurate than anything!!??? I bet Neil Burkhill is casting like a madman getting his stock built up for the italeri kits!! :)

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Is it me or does the wing glove box look too fat & the center look too low?...

sideview.jpg

BOZ107B.jpg

Hi Merv - no its not you - I think this is the case too. It doesnt surpise me now with this model at all!

I'm not regretting this build as I think it has been an eyeopener for lots of people who were hoping this was THE kit ( and will hopefully be of use to anyone who wants to try and build the model with some if not all of the corrections), but I am starting to wonder at what point I just get the paint out and stop trying to mak eit look like a Torando :)

Cheers

Jonners

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RiGHT- I'll tell you what really peeeses me off about this kit-

Well, it'sbeen wanted for years- a proper Fin. 100% you know 100% WANTED!!!

AIRFIX could have done a good one- except they did that stooopid Mosquito.

LOOK AT ALL THOSE SALES THEY HAVE MISSED OUT ON!!!!!!!

:angrysoapbox.sml:

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RiGHT- I'll tell you what really peeeses me off about this kit-

Well, it'sbeen wanted for years- a proper Fin. 100% you know 100% WANTED!!!

AIRFIX could have done a good one- except they did that stooopid Mosquito.

LOOK AT ALL THOSE SALES THEY HAVE MISSED OUT ON!!!!!!!

:angrysoapbox.sml:

Breath Mental....breath.....WOOO-SSAaaaaa.......

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I wonder how many modellers not as experienced as Jon will,on opening the HB Box will go out & buy aftermarket bit's to correct HB's mistakes rather than trying to takle what Jon has done here,spending the guts of £80!

The HB kit is,what, £40? Considering you can pick up an Italarai one for around £10-£15 & Paragon or 2Mikes set for around £30-£35,I'd be more inclined to go for the latter!!

More bang for your buck IMHO!

Merv

It's not quite that cheap to bring the Italeri kit up to the level of detail and options that are in the HB kit

RRP prices taken from Hannants website;

Italeri Tornado 'Black Panthers' - £17.99

RAF Tornado wing & fuselage pylons £5.38

Tornado Flaps & Slats £12.71

Tornado Afterburners £3.90

Tornado bulged Wheels £3.23

Tornado Front Fin Correction £2.92

and from the Neomega site Tornado Cockpit set £18.50

All of which comes to a grand total of....

£64.63!!

Were are the intake ramps?, I would have prefered a short intake tunel instead of the gaping hole that this kit has, Don't think I've ever build Tornado kit were you can see the wings though the intake.

I think covers maybe needed.

Shaun.

The intake set up is the same as that in the 1/32 Revell kit minus the ramps. There isn't a Tornado on the market that has a decent intake set up, doesn't excuse HB's attempt but they're not exactly alone :shrug:

I'm not regretting this build as I think it has been an eyeopener for lots of people who were hoping this was THE kit ( and will hopefully be of use to anyone who wants to try and build the model with some if not all of the corrections), but I am starting to wonder at what point I just get the paint out and stop trying to mak eit look like a Torando :)

Now you're getting somewhere :lol: Fantastic work so far and I admire your tenacity and pursuit of accuracy! But...I think I will probably be doing less than half of the corrections you've made...whilst accuracy is important I think you've got to balance it with the effort involved and more importantly the actual overall effect it has on the final finished look of the model. I've got a pretty good eye for shapes but it's the big stuff I can spot without resorting to comparing to plans and photographs that's gonna get fixed. For me me that's...fettle the nose slightly, fix the canopy, shape the fincap and the reprofile the tailplanes...big impact for minimal effort. Slap some intake covers on it and you've got a pretty reasonable Tornado with very nice surface detail, well done cockpit, landing gear and a whole lot of other fine detail all without needing any aftermarket and for what? ...about £32-35 if you shop around. Sounds good to me :)

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RiGHT- I'll tell you what really peeeses me off about this kit-

Well, it'sbeen wanted for years- a proper Fin. 100% you know 100% WANTED!!!

AIRFIX could have done a good one- except they did that stooopid Mosquito.

LOOK AT ALL THOSE SALES THEY HAVE MISSED OUT ON!!!!!!!

:angrysoapbox.sml:

Ah! But how do you KNOW that Airfix will never EVER re-tool their 25 year old, worn out Tornado kit?

Or that someone else will issue one?

Keep the faith Mental!! Someone will do decent Tornado - one day!!!

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Ah! But how do you KNOW that Airfix will never EVER re-tool their 25 year old, worn out Tornado kit?

Or that someone else will issue one?

Keep the faith Mental!! Someone will do decent Tornado - one day!!!

Yup probably Tamiya, then it will be quality :)

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Amazing work so far Jon :worship:

Been thinking about the recess for the skyflash missile in the rear fuselage; was the F-3 rear fuselage not longer than the IDS to accommodate different engines? Might lever my bottom off this seat and go dig out some references to check exactly where the differences were between F-2 and F-3 if no-one beats me to it...

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Yup probably Tamiya, then it will be quality :)

Shame the JASDF didn't buy the ADV, otherwise we'd be spoiled for choice between upteen boxings from Hasegawa, Tamiya, Fujimi et al.

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Shame the JASDF didn't buy the ADV, otherwise we'd be spoiled for choice between upteen boxings from Hasegawa, Tamiya, Fujimi et al.

Except Fujimis would be 1/50th scale, Hasegawa's would have some many panel inserts and sections to cater for different versions everyone would whine, and Tamiya's would be about £150 :)

In truth Col, we are never happy as modellers, apart from when we can get our teeth into some good old fashioned model slagging !! Its true - its the glue that holds the modelling world together :winkgrin:

Now back to our current R18 film at hand - I think you can just about sand the front upper fuselage down to make it look a little more like the pics Keef showed earlier. But unless you have padded out the fuselage insides before hand with some thickish plastic card, you will go (just) through the plastic somewhere near where the Navs knees would be. Ask me how I know this :)

pics to follow

Jonners

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A good set of points well made Jon :lol:

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With regard to the overly thick wing glove box,I dont think it's fixable withpout major surgery,Jon.

ColC,I would prefer that route although I'd get the DJ Parkins Flightpath set,not bothered about dropped flaps ect but I have a few sets of wings so I'd try to scratchbuild.

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With regard to the overly thick wing glove box,I dont think it's fixable withpout major surgery,Jon.

No I think you are right - having looked - the plastic on the inside of the wing glove box is quite thin - so sanding is out. You could add a shim of plastic card to the leading edge, then fill in and sand to sharpen up, but it would still be too thick, and would extend the LE forward too much onto the intake.

Again - one has to question the HB designers here - just shoddy research.

cheers

Jonners

PS do you have any rough dimensions for the Sky Shadow pod - need to build one you see...

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Jon - can't you line the inside of the wing box with a coat of resin, or Milliput, so that if you go through it doesn't matter? I did that when I was sorting out the Viggen "belly" issue, and eventually you could see the cream of the resin coming through the grey plastic. Worked a treat :)

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PS do you have any rough dimensions for the Sky Shadow pod - need to build one you see...

I may well have a spare one knocking about Jonners....not a real one mind!! But an Airfix pod? Not sure how accurate - I think it was a bit bulkier than the Flightpath, or Italeri pod I have?

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Jon

I admire your approach to this kit!! It has helped me decide that my more accurate Italeri kits are going to just get the Paragon Treatment. Who would have ever guessed we would say an Italeri kit is more accurate than anything!!??? I bet Neil Burkhill is casting like a madman getting his stock built up for the italeri kits!! :)

Despite Jon's good work/tips I'm with you Mike. I think I'll be sticking with my Italeri kits. :weep:

Oh I do think this thread should be Pinned somewhere (once complete) as a reference to those who may want to follow Jon's path

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No I think you are right - having looked - the plastic on the inside of the wing glove box is quite thin - so sanding is out. You could add a shim of plastic card to the leading edge, then fill in and sand to sharpen up, but it would still be too thick, and would extend the LE forward too much onto the intake.

Again - one has to question the HB designers here - just shoddy research.

cheers

Jonners

PS do you have any rough dimensions for the Sky Shadow pod - need to build one you see...

I have spare Italeri ones you can have Jonners.

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Jon - can't you line the inside of the wing box with a coat of resin, or Milliput, so that if you go through it doesn't matter? I did that when I was sorting out the Viggen "belly" issue, and eventually you could see the cream of the resin coming through the grey plastic. Worked a treat :)

Hi Mike - ah good thinking Kimusabi!! yes you could, but you would need to be carefull you didnt fill it so much you ended up having to bur it out to let the wing fit back in. its quite tight in there. And in truth i think this is where the problem lies. HB have given us the normal swing swing model mechanism here - the "big gears" (despite the fact they provide wing seals that only let you do fully forward, and their instructions make no mention of the swing, and that the flaps are only doable in down which prevents it working. You figure the logic, 'cus it defies mine) and I think to allow for this "working feature" they have made everything a bit thick and chunky - hence the glove box is too deep height wise, and no one bothered to check what the LE was up to sharpness wise.- which is back to the atrocious R&D that cripples this model. Were I to build another - I might try and correct this feature, as it would be easier to do before top and bottom main fuselage halves went together.

Now - the front fuselage shape as mentioned by Keef. So what I've done is take my usual weapon of mass construction, the 120 grit flexible sanding pad and do one side of the forward fuselage to see if I can get that curvyness back into the upper front area a bit more. In the following pics the left hand side ( as you look) is sanded, the RHS isnt. I've added strips of tape to emphasis the curvature, and not to create some weird meteor NF11 / Tornado cross breed!!!!

I leave it open to you guys to see if you think its worth it. So let me know :) If I sand any more I really will be through the plastic ( again if I did another I'd pack the inside with some thick sheet before hand. But then I am a masochist :wicked: )

Front on view

noseprofile1.jpg

LHS view ( ie sanded side)

noseprofile2a.jpg

RHS view ( pretty much unaltered)

noseprofile3a.jpg

Slightly more oblique view of LHS

noseprofile2b.jpg

and of the right

noseprofile3b.jpg

I think it looks better but its not perfect. However - once I improve the flair on the added canopy framing, it might be enough to pass the "bluffers guide to Tornado airframe shapes" test

Cheers

Jonners

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