The Sky (Type “S”) is the Limit - now with "Made in the UK" Humbrol 90

[John]

A sample from my new best friends, Phoenix Precision:

I had high hopes after their Azure Blue, and the Sky is pretty much spot on compared to the RAFM chip.

So, in summary and by way of contrast to the Azure Blue thread, I would say that each of the Sky/Sky-like paints brushed out here is close enough to the RAFM chip to meet most modelling requirements. I would, and probably will, use them all - especially as it's unlikely I will ever have to buy a tin, pot or bottle of Sky again! The contrast with the Azure Blue situation is marked, where I now have a selection of light, medium and dark blues all purporting to be Azure Blue but actually of fairly limited utility.

Aircraft Grey Green next, perhaps?

John

[John]

For completeness, and copied from another thread, Airfix M16 Vellum. Before Airfix switched from bottles to tins in, what, the early 1970s, M16 was listed as Duck Egg Blue. I don't know if the older shade was close to the later one, but this is from a tin. Vellum was cited by Airfix in the late 1970s for the Sky trim on the 1/72 Spitfire Vb and, I think, on the underside of the Buffalo. There may well have been other instances of it cropping up about then:

It isn't a particularly good Sky, being very close in shade to Vallejo Pastel Green, discussed above.

John

[dragonlanceHR]

Aircraft Grey Green next, perhaps?

John

Nah, you should try the Ocean Grey

Thanks for the good work both here and on Azure.

[Dave Fleming]

I notice Revell also have a Sky in the Aqua color range - must get one!

[dwh]

I have been watching this post for some time, and found it very interesting as regards different results obtained.

I have now done a comparison of my own paints(a few more to add).

All paints are new unopened till now, each was given a thorough mix with a badger power mixer to ensure all pigments mixed.

then painted out, results I found very interesting, the most accurate in my selection was actually by Precision Paints.

The colours are actually a lot closer match than the monitor shows.

I have also decided to do comparison of the other colours that I have, may take a while.

Derek

[Seahawk]

.. the most accurate in my selection was actually by Precision Paints.

Presumably that's Precision from the mists of antiquity and not the modern-day Phoenix Precision range?

http://phoenix-paints.co.uk/enamel.asp?F_Railway=80

[dwh]

Presumably that's Precision from the mists of antiquity and not the modern-day Phoenix Precision range?

That is correct, the original Precision Paints,

have not tried the new aircraft range, which is nowhere near as large a range as the originals although their railway colours are excellent.

[Nick Millman]

The Humbrol Authentics Duck Egg Blue looks like a reasonable representation out of the tin for the US equivalent for that colour. Humbrol recommend using 23 but that now seems to be closer to MAP Sky (see earlier posts).

[LDSModeller]

Hi All

Found this interesting post on Fine Scale forums.

Be interested as to what our experts on Britmodeller have to say

(Note: not trying to inflame anything here) on this gents comments

One thing I find intriguing is his reference to the FS Standard and pre/early

WWII British paints

Here is the link (Comments relating are about 10 posts down by Antoni)

Sky comments

Thanks

Alan

Edited September 16, 2011 by LDSModeller

[Nick Millman]

Hi Alan

It's basically the Paul Lucas hypothesis which was discussed at length here in another thread. The "exact" matches to paint standards are subjective and the hypothesis conflates paint colour standards with applied paints. As mentioned elsewhere here one man's "perfect match" may not be another's. Some of the extant samples match FS values but the hypothesis does not suggest paints to FS standard were obtained! Because they also happen to match the BS 381 (1930) standard, which feasibly was available at the time, 2 and 2 are being added to make 5. It contributes to a tendency to latch on to cited standards and then make them definitive, repeating them ad nauseum across the modelling world - so that some Hurricanes were painted #16 Eau de Nil rather than with paint that appears to match that standard. This is a small point but to a pedant an irksome one.

"Antoni" writes:-

"In some cases, individual units mixed their own paint but so far no official documentation has been found on this subject."

Whereas in the thread here at Britmodeller information from Ian Huntley was quoted regarding official mixing instructions which had been found. When white, yellow and blue are variously mixed (using colours available in stores paints) the resulting colours are very similar to those pre-war BS 381 colours. And while we are at it no official documentation has been found to confirm the use of BS381 (1930) # 1 and # 16. Be wary of hypotheses that begin to approach an agenda.

It remains conjectural whether paints to BS 381 (1930) No. 1 and No. 16 standards were actually used, whether paint was mixed to match those standards or whether the matches are purely accidental. But from a modelling perspective it's probably academic as the WEM paints (for example) can represent the unit mixed colours out of the tin anyway.

Regards

Nick

Edited September 16, 2011 by Nick Millman

[LDSModeller]

Hi Nick

Thanks for that, appreciate you answering my post!

Thanks/regards

Alan

[John]

Not a make of paint I've used before, but I recently got some Model Master Sky enamel. Compared to the RAFM chip it's a fair match, being towards the darker end of the colours tested but not heading into the yellow:

Not the best match, but certainly not bad.

I also picked up a "just delivered" pot of Humbrol 23 Duck Egg Blue from my local shop. It still isn't blue of any sort but it is an excellent Sky, being just a touch lighter than the RAFM chip:

I wouldn't hesitate to use Humbrol 23 in any application that called for Sky.

John

Edited October 8, 2011 by John

[Riggers]

Oops! Opening back up this topic, has anyone tried Vallejo Model Air 009 Duck Egg Green for the 'Sky'?

ATB...............

[Harvs73]

A bit of a bump on an old topic. I just sprayed Hu 23 on my 1/48 Firefly and Hu90 on the Sea Fury, both over an undercoat of Mr Surfacer 1200. Hu23 is 'bluer' whilst the Hu90 is more green.

[MrPitotTube]

This topic needs to be bumped from time to time as its a never ending topic. I recently used some humbrol 90 enamel from a older style tin (10 years old?) and it was a pleasing shade more akin to the Hu23 Harvs73 has used. I tried to replicate the shade mixing Revell Aqua Colours, (using their take on Sky as a starting point). It's not as easy as I thought because a) the mix looks different in the pot to when it brushes out; the shade changes as it dries, and c) the shade looks different in hue (blue/green) depending on lighting conditions. Solution? Take an artistic approach, if it looks right it's good enough.

[Edgar]

Please do not fall into the British Standards trap; by their own admission B.S. had no input to the wartime colours, since the Air Ministry told them that they wanted to keep control, and there's every indication that it was Farnborough who did all of the work.

Camotint/Sky had no correlation with any pre-war B.S. shade; during the war it was "colour 9A of H.M.G. Aircraft series," then, post-war, it became BS381C:210.

Edgar

[John]

I was in our local Hobbycraft a couple of days ago and I picked up a pot of "UK manufactured" 23 Duck Egg Blue:

The colour seems to be pretty much the same as the one I tested a couple of years ago. It is slightly less yellow than the Sky chip in the RAFM book:

but would certainly do a turn as Sky for most model applications. It brushed out really nicely too.

John

[stevehnz]

It sure looks as though it has covered better than some of the paint outs shown in the thread about the Humbrol RLM colours.

Steve.

[Guest]

Déjà' Vu all over again. I think i will just stick with my MM sky type S, otherwise I will just get a migraine over-thinking the colors, but I do love these discussions, we are truly blessed with all these informative members, and that is why this is my favorite modeling site.

Happy New Year to all

S.A.

[John]

A little post-script to his thread - I was in Tower Models in Blackpool at the weekend and, in their Humbrol rack, I found these:

97 Eggshell. These must be a good few years old but it goes to show what you can find in the most unexpected places.

John

[John]

My son picked to a pot of the newest Humbrol incarnation of 90 Beige Green yesterday. This is the one in the newest style of tin and with "Made in the UK" printed on it. The brushout shows it's very good indeed against the RAFM sample:

Nice one Humbrol, definitely recommended.

As a matter of interest, and not still having the brushout samples from the beginning of this thread, I dug my oldest tin of 90 out of the paint box for a comparison. This is from the Humbrol "Grey Band" tinlet era which, according to this website, is the late 1970s/early 1980s style:

http://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/humbrol.htm

My tin is an example of the second Grey band type in the list:

The dating means that this must be one of the very earliest batches of 90, which was introduced in 1978. It needed a bit of a stir but, even though it's the best part of 35 years old, it's still quite usable. Comparing it to the current colour:

Remarkably consistent.

John

[Stonar]

This surely implies that Humbrol 90 has always been the colour for Sky unless I'm missing something here.

Cheers

Steve

[Graham Boak]

It's that "always" that's a bit of a niggle. As long as it has existed, perhaps. Apologies for re-covering old ground, but as said above it's needed sometimes, and saves much cross-referencing. As a teenager in the 60s I used 23, which I've recognised for some time was not Sky but was a duck-egg blue. Not the colour now sold as 23, but more like Sky Blue. From the mid-60s there were the Authentic colours, which came in boxes of six and (as I recall) had quite a nice Sky. These were later sold separately but in many cases the colour changed dramatically - I don't recall about Sky. Was this when 90 was introduced or earlier?

[Nick Millman]

Going back a long way to the 1960s at least Humbrol Sky was 28 in their 'Authentic Matt Finishes' and looks decidedly blueish on their chart from that time. 'Matt Duck Egg Blue' was 23 and looks more like Sky.

In Humbrol gloss there was 1 Eau-de-Nil and 13 Sky Blue which look like the 1930s BS colours of those names.

Nick

[John]

I suspect that many, if not most, of the original Humbrol "oil enamel" paints were BS381 shades if not always in name.

J