Seahawk Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) What with the recent commemoration of the start of WW2 I recently picked up the Airfix Dornier 17 E/F. It doesn't seem to be a bad kit: yes, some rivets but nice fine trailing edges and even a bit of sidewall detail in the cockpit. The undercarriage parts was more delicate than I think the current "chunky" Airfix style would manage. Anyway as usual I then started looking for background details and reviews and to my surprise have drawn a complete blank. There doesn't seem to have been anything on it in any of my magazines. The best, well only, article I've found is on full-size early Do 17s in Air Enthusiast 30. So: - can anyone point me to any reviews, superdetailing articles, etc on the Airfix Do 17? (It seems to have been first advertised in the March 1973 Airfix Magazine.) - failing that, would anyone like to offer any thoughts on the kit? Thanks in advance. Nick Edited September 20, 2009 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Couple of conversion articles here based on the kit which might be of some interest:- http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/wantado17.htm http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/axis/luft/attarddo17p.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I'm trying to remember where the rivets are on that kit, IIRC, its mainly smooth with some engraved lines in places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 I'm trying to remember where the rivets are on that kit, IIRC, its mainly smooth with some engraved lines in places. There are quite fine rivets but all over the fuselage, wings and tailplane except for the fabric-covered areas. I know Airfix chose a fairly obscure variant but it's hard to believe it was totally ignored. Almost as if it was too bad to be mentioned in polite company! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nick, what are you exactly looking for ? Might possibly be able to help with some data. You might also want to have a look at http://www.ipms.at/index.php?option=com_co...1&Itemid=44 even if in German. Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 There was a review by Les Whitehouse in the March 1973 "Modelworld": "It is moulded in the usual [Airfix] style.....except that the top wing has been moulded in one piece to give more accurate alignment. Detailing on this model is much better than on most of the Airfix products although the choice of plastic colour is not conducive to displaying this point - most of the details are 'lost' in the light blue plastic, a colour dictated by the majority market who, so we are told, do not like to paint large areas if they can get away with it. Those 'Airfix style' rivets have not been eliminated entirely but there are certainly far fewer than usual on this particular model and they are much more neatly done. A coat of paint shows the neat inscribed detail to perfection and modellers will note particularly the good accuracy of the engine nacelles and wing trailing edges. The fit of parts is quite good (in the case of the wing/fuselage joint the fit was so good that a little scraping was required to get the wing to seat down completely) and very little filler is required. The method of joining the engine nacelles means that a little more care than usual is needed to align them while drying. This is quite acceptable when one considers that this small sacrifice allows the tops to be moulded with the joints as full size and gives 'super detail' artists the chance to open up the top cowling and add engine detail. Cockpit detail is neat and the canopies are very clear. A point to note is the possibility of fitting the Airfix fuselage to wings from the later model Frog kit and hence extending the range of variants. We should add, however, that the two canopies differ slightly on wing root section and spar placement with the result that an amount of filling is required both above and below the wings if this 'swap' is attempted...Decals for this kit cover an aircraft of 1/KG 77 (formerly 1/KG 153) during the Polish campaign, and an earlier machine of 9/KG 255. British price is 54p - well worth it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Sprue shots from the latest Airfix issue in the link with some discussion about etch and canopies etc. http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/about9662.html Best Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Bad form to answer my own thread, I know, but one of the posts just prompted me to see what Frank Marshall had to say about it in his round-up of 1/72 Luftwaffe kits in the back of Simon Parry's "Colours of the Luftwaffe": "A mixture of fine raised and some etched lines cover the kit together with the Airfix rivets, of course. There is a fabric effect on all control surfaces and very heavy treads on the tyres. Some useful cockpit detail is included. But the canopies are inaccurate. The engine cowlings are over scale and require some filler due to their multi-part assembly." Any advance on that? My own in-the-box assessment is that it was probably a nice kit when it first came out: it's stamped 1971, which I think makes it a near contemporary of the Spitfire Vb. Good points are the thin trailing edges and a bit of internal detail for the very small cockpit. Bad points are very thick canopies, rather overdone panel lines and possibly over-thick tail surfaces. However the years have not been kind to the moulds: in the latest boxing (made in India) some of the engraved lines (eg around elevator trim tabs) have been damaged and partly reinstated rather amateurishly, there are slight longitudinal depressions the whole length of the rear fuselage about 4mm on either side of the top joinline which might be Airfix's very faithful representation of the Do 17's subtle fuselage contours but are more likely shrink marks, the wing halves marry up better if the locating pips are removed and there's a bulge in the leading edge of the port wing which shouldn't be there. Oh, and the very thin transfers are printed onto next-to-no transfer film and were already flaking when I opened the box. All of which sounds as if I don't like it. Actually there's nothing there that can't be put right with a scriber, a file, some Mr Surfacer 500 and maybe some new canopies. But, given a choice, I might be inclined to go for the Bilek pressing in the hope that it predates the deterioration in the moulds. But, like I said, this aircraft has exposed a black hole in my references so any and all help still very welcome. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilneBay Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) I built one about a year ago. The example I bought had a badly warped fuselage which took some effort to close properly, and I also had difficulty getting the wing assy to fit the fuselage. However that said I was reasonably pleased with the final product, although the decals (printed on the tan paper) were both very fragile and prone to silver. On balance I am happy that Airfix released it again. Edited September 20, 2009 by MilneBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I recently picked up the Airfix Dornier 17 E/F. It doesn't seem to be a bad kit: yes, some rivets but nice fine trailing edges and even a bit of sidewall detail in the cockpit. The undercarriage parts was more delicate than I think the current "chunky" Airfix style would manage. Hi Nick, I built this kit in about 1996. One visit to IPMS and it has remained in a box virtually ever since. I'll fetch it down from the loft to show you - and see if it jogs my memory about building it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZKIWI Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Remembering this kit is over 35 years old , it was considered to be pretty good when it arrived .Somewhere I was told to check area where the fuselage meets the wing at the trailing edge , againts photographs , but I have never had the kit and a decent photo together . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReccePhreak Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 (edited) Nick,what are you exactly looking for ? Might possibly be able to help with some data. You might also want to have a look at http://www.ipms.at/index.php?option=com_co...1&Itemid=44 even if in German. Rolf Interesting conversion article, thanks for the link. That might be the way I will have to go, as there is no way I can afford one of the RS Model Do-17P kits. They are over $54.00 here! What kind of info do you have on the Do-17P? Anything to help in a conversion? Larry Edited September 20, 2009 by ReccePhreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I built one of the older boxings 18 months or so ago: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...ic=9650&hl= John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Hi Nick, I built this kit in about 1996. One visit to IPMS and it has remained in a box virtually ever since.I'll fetch it down from the loft to show you - and see if it jogs my memory about building it. I just fetched a Dornier 217 down from the loft - different kit! Is the Dornier 17 the one with a brown aircraft on the boxart, being attacked by Polish parasol aircraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard M Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 This one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 This one? Thanks Richard, that's the one! Related to my model, but not the same thing. Different animals. Differences that I can spot: Mine has radial engines, a deeper forward fuselage with better protection, and bigger fins. That looks like blended fuselage and wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Thanks Richard, that's the one! Related to my model, but not the same thing. Different animals. Differences that I can spot: Mine has radial engines, a deeper forward fuselage with better protection, and bigger fins. That looks like blended fuselage and wings. Sounds like you're thinking about the Dornier 17Z, the Battle of Britain era version. FROG and Monogram did these in 1/72. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 20, 2009 Author Share Posted September 20, 2009 All Hello, back again. Sorry, I've had internet connection probs since just after 10 pm last night, hence my silence. Thanks to everyone for their helpful pointers. Rolf: I know very little about this aircraft and was trying to track down some reviews that would confirm (or contradict) the essentially favourable impression I'd gained. Your article, a careful, informed, critical review, was just the job though I still need to look up one or 2 words in the dictionary! The main points I carry away are that the rear fuselage door should be further forward and the grooves in the tyres need filling. You've also confirmed my impression that the tail surfaces are way too thick. Other faults are too difficult to correct. Shan't be going for a superdetail job and will be doing a bomber not a recce version so that's prob all I need at the mo, though I may be after some Polish campaign markings at a later date (NB I have the recent MAM article plus the photo in Roth's Luftwaffe Codes). AWFK10: good steer. Thank you: have looked out my own copy now. Still surprised that, for such a significant aircraft none of the mags seem ever to have carried a superdetailing or a camo & markings article. Maybe everyone thought "Oh, it's not a Battle of Britain version" and ignored it. I know I have for the last 25 years plus. NZKIWI: thanks for the advice re the rear wing-fuselage fillet but lack of reference data is a bit of a problem. John: nice build. Thanks again everyone for your input. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZKIWI Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 NZKIWI: thanks for the advice re the rear wing-fuselage fillet but lack of reference data is a bit of a problem. I have dug out the kit , but not a photo , trial fitting of the the fuselage to wing appears to show a slight problem . Nothing to do with the wing fillet , but if you look at the kit in profile I think there is an issue with fuselage spine . I think the area around the spine should be flatter from somewhere in line with the wing trailing edge to about mid cord if that makes sense . I have had a quick look at the Frog Do 17 and the spine in profile does not have the slight lump that is present in the Airfix kit . I think this problem can be corrected with careful sanding . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Nick & Larry. Not wanting to hijack the thread but maybe 2 pics for illustrating what can be realised with the old Airfix and Frog offerings without extreme effort.... The RS kits are fine representations, with the usual limitations of short runs and at a price. Nick: do you have any of the references mentionned in my article on ipms.at ? If not, I shall try to post something later on - will have to scan first - going to take some time. Or if there is enough interest I might put up an English version of the build report on ipms.uk > forum > Photo Recce > Luftwaffe Reconnaissance with some delay. Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZKIWI Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 They are nice . Does anyone know if the Frog and Monogram kits are the same mould ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 They are nice . Does anyone know if the Frog and Monogram kits are the same mould ? No, they're different if broadly contemporary. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Nick & Larry.Not wanting to hijack the thread but maybe 2 pics for illustrating what can be realised with the old Airfix and Frog offerings without extreme effort.... The RS kits are fine representations, with the usual limitations of short runs and at a price. Nick: do you have any of the references mentionned in my article on ipms.at ? If not, I shall try to post something later on - will have to scan first - going to take some time. Or if there is enough interest I might put up an English version of the build report on ipms.uk > forum > Photo Recce > Luftwaffe Reconnaissance with some delay. Rolf Rolf, No. I don't have any of the references you cite. The "Regnat - Do 17 vom Original zum Modell" sounds interesting if you have the time to do a scan. I can read German so no need to do an English translation just for me. However it looks as if we've piqued a bit of interest in several other people too. Or I could give up and take up crochet after looking at your gobsmackingly good models: as you say, shows what can be done with old kits with a little effort - and maybe a little skill as well. Thanks for your trouble. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Nick, no reason to chicken out they aint THAT good ! BTW - will you be at SMW ? If you are not in a hurry to start I could also bring along some data. You might find me at the Photo Recce SIG table ..... But will start scanning anyhow asap - will just take some time. Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZKIWI Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 The two models displayed are obviously the Airfix kit and the Frog kit , however the Frog one has clearly been converted , is this with the Airmodel conversion or something else ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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