Mijail Navarro Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Good afternoon Chaps, Hope you can help me to know which Spitfire' Scheme is this (picture). This is a No 41 Squadron Spitfire, probably EB-R P9428. You can notice one of the wings is black but the tail wing looks black for me, I know that one of the Spitifre's schemes is half black but this spitfire shows just the wings. This is S/L Richard Hood's spitfire (the squirrel art is great), sadly he was killed in action during the Battle of Britain on September 5th. Thanks in advance. Best Regards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrow Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Good afternoon Chaps,Hope you can help me to know which Spitfire' Scheme is this (picture).This is a No 41 Squadron Spitfire, probably EB-R P9428.You can notice one of the wings is black but the tail wing looks black for me, I know that one of the Spitifre's schemes is half black but this spitfire shows just the wings.This is S/L Richard Hood's spitfire (the squirrel art is great), sadly he was killed in action during the Battle of Britain on September 5th.Thanks in advance.Best Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark M Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 im not much of an expert on spitfires, but im sure ive seen a photo of one with a black tail wing aswell, but the picture is not clear it could be just the shaddow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrow Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 If serial is P 9428, the aircraft left factory between Jan. and may 40 in the (A) scheme. It would have been with a white starboard wing and black port divided in the middle with the balance of all the undersurfaces in silver. Fuselage roundel would have been 35 inches type A growing to 49 inches in mid-may when the yellow ring and fin stripes were added. 41 squadron used 30 inches code letters. In mid-may fighters squadrons were instructed to paint undersurface in black and white divided on the centerline with black on the port side but the undersurface of the cowling on your photo would seem to indicate that it is still in the earlier scheme. Do remember that this period is full of anomalies.Hope that this was of some help. Arrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalguru Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Lovely photos. The forward frame of the rear portion of the canopy is NMF- as appear to be the area surrounding the port fuselage roundel if you look closely. Also there appears to be a very small roundel on the starboard wing underside right out at the tip..? wonder if it's a bitza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Did this aircraft have the black wing at the time of being shot down or would the aircraft have been repaint in Sky on the underside? EB-R Spitfire Ia P9428 September 1940 Sqn Ldr Hilary R. L. 'Robin' Hood DFC RAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 From going through Squadron Leader Hood's log book, he flew numerous Spitfires up until May 25th 1940 when he took on EB-R, only flying two other Spitfires on two separate occasions up until his death in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 The forward frame of the rear portion of the canopy is NMF- as appear to be the area surrounding the port fuselage roundel if you look closely. Also there appears to be a very small roundel on the starboard wing underside right out at the tip..? The forward frame is camouflaged as can be seen where the canopy has been slid back. That part viewed through the canopy appears bright but this is presumably glare. The fuselage roundel is surrounded by yellow. The small roundel near the wingtip is known on Spitfires produced in this period. Having a black tailplane is also common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 So were the half and half undersides applied for the duration of the BOB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 The black and white undersides were before the BoB. They were officially abolished from early June 1940 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Did this aircraft have the black wing at the time of being shot down or would the aircraft have been repaint in Sky on the underside?EB-R Spitfire Ia P9428 September 1940 Sqn Ldr Hilary R. L. 'Robin' Hood DFC RAF The black and white undersides were before the BoB. They were officially abolished from early June 1940 So a safe assumption is they were painted Sky on the underside? Anyone know the colours of the nose art? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Sky or whatever colour may have been used in its absence. I think Sky is a safe bet but you may see other possibilities mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIkeMaben Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Cleared the photos a little. You can see wing roundels on the a/c in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Having spoken to the copyright holder of the photographs, he states that the images were taken at Catterick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) 2-6-40 an order was issued that underside roundels should be painted as large as possible without encroaching on the ailerons. 10-6-40 a notification was issued that, due to shortage of Sky, black/white scheme would remain for now. 12-6-40 Glosters (and presumably other manufacturers) were told to remove the black/white plus roundels and start painting fighters in Sky, with immediate effect. Edited September 14, 2015 by Edgar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Any views on the art colours? So if I was making EB=R at the time of its loss, what would be the colours and prop type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 The prop wouldn't have changed, it would be Sky underneath. The colours would just be guesswork based on tonal values which may not read across into the same hues. The square appears to match the yellow in the roundel, so that's one guess. The animal is a squirrel, perhaps, so reddish-brown? If that's a thistle, you have green stem and leaves with white head. The base is likely to be black and white or red and white? maybe.... maybe not. As he's Robin Hood maybe Lincoln Green should come in somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Starmer Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Looking at the photograph the tailplane and elevator do appear dark as does the rear under fuselage. From this I and the build date, I deduct that the finish is half black, half white with a replacement lower cowling in silver. I might be wrong of course but I have seen similar anomaly on Flying Officer Kain's Hurricane during August 1940 where the starboard centre section and half the cowling is silver and a white short front cowl section, the port side fuselage, centre section is black but the starboard outer plane is white. Picture dated April 1940 in 'Fighter Command 1939-45', I. Carter, page 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Thanks for the info- So early scheme- half white/black inc tail plane? silver lower engine cover.Pattern A top camo Late -Sky underside and Pattern A on top I've read the the half & half colour were Sky/black, was this aircraft white? Shaun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) In November 1940 the black port wing was re-introduced. Everything else was Sky. This photo is earlier than that. Edited September 19, 2015 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 In November 1941 the black port wing was re-introduced. Everything else was Sky. This photo is earlier than that. On this restored aircraft its black and white- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32935757 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Yes, because it has been restored to an earlier time when black and white was the required scheme. (I have corrected my typo to 1940, not 1941.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Thanks, just got to pick a time frame now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 With the release on the Dunkirk film, i'm considering doing a Spitfire from this time frame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Shaun I you have not read this scans are available here http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/01-Supermarine-Spitfire which will explain what markings occurred when and where. There are a lot of changes from 39-42, especially in 1940 which do cause confusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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