Holt Flares and Illuminted Gunsights

[sonofjim]

Hey chaps does any one have any info on holt flares dimensions

any piccies etc... also any piccies and or info for illuminted gunsights

doing an SE 5 nightfighter so i'll neeed to add these things trouble is i aint got a clue what

ise lookin at guv

cheers Jim

(ww1 virgin)

[Rowan Broadbent]

Hey chaps does any one have any info on holt flares dimensions

any piccies etc... also any piccies and or info for illuminted gunsights

doing an SE 5 nightfighter so i'll neeed to add these things trouble is i aint got a clue what

ise lookin at guv

cheers Jim

(ww1 virgin)

Hello Jim,

The sideview included with the decals is to 32nd scale, so you can take the dimensions from that - not the enlarged view, however - that's not to any particular scale, just to show the detail.

As far as the Neame Illuminated Gunsight is concerned, I don't have any drawings and the only photo is the one of D3459, but in Harry Woodmans excellent book Early Aircraft Armament there is a description which reads:

"Introduced in late 1917, the Neame night sight in some ways resembled a normal ring-and-bead sight except that the ring was coated with luminous paint.....the foresight was a hollow pillar with a pin hole at the top and a torch bulb inside. The centre of the ring was indicated by another pinpoint of light from a bulb contained in the ring pillar mount. One feature of the ring was that it was so dimensioned that the wing span of a Gotha exactly matched the diameter of the ring at a range of 100 yds: by late 1917 the Gothas had taken to night bombing. This worked well until the huge German R class aero[planes began to raid at night: now the sight was misleading, the result being that the pilot fired at too great a range."

By using trigonometry, I've calculated that, given that the wingspan of a Gotha was 77'9" and the distance from the observer was 100yards, then the diameter of the sight ring at say, 18"from the pilot's eye, would have been about 5". In 32nd scale that comes out to about 3.5mm as the diameter of the ring.

The ring was mounted at the base of the barrell on a short pillar which lifted it above the magazine.

Here's what I think it would have looked like:

Should have incorporated this in the decal pack!

[sonofjim]

absolutley superb Rowan thanks a million , Durr.... i hadnt realised they were to scale what a numpty !

i should have known due to the attention you have poured into the rest of the ...

bumf shall we say ?

thanks for the info jim

[Edgar]

There's a slightly conflicting description in "British Aircraft Armament volume 2: RAF guns and gunsights from 1914 to the present day" (heck of a mouthful!) by R. Wallace Clarke. He says that the rear ring (which varied in size from 2" to 4.5" [Gotha dimension]) was illuminated by a green bulb, hidden inside the support tube, with the light shining through a thin slot. The green light also shone through a .5mm hole in the tip of the hollow-domed backsight blade. The foresight also had a hollow support, inside which was a red bulb, and another small pinhole allowing the red light to shine through. The two elements were carried on a bar 18" long. According to the illustration, the pilot aligned the pinpricks of light so that the red was fractionally above the green, then waited for the enemy a/c to fill the illuminated ring.

Edgar

[Rowan Broadbent]

There's a slightly conflicting description in "British Aircraft Armament volume 2: RAF guns and gunsights from 1914 to the present day" (heck of a mouthful!) by R. Wallace Clarke. He says that the rear ring (which varied in size from 2" to 4.5" [Gotha dimension]) was illuminated by a green bulb, hidden inside the support tube, with the light shining through a thin slot. The green light also shone through a .5mm hole in the tip of the hollow-domed backsight blade. The foresight also had a hollow support, inside which was a red bulb, and another small pinhole allowing the red light to shine through. The two elements were carried on a bar 18" long. According to the illustration, the pilot aligned the pinpricks of light so that the red was fractionally above the green, then waited for the enemy a/c to fill the illuminated ring.

Edgar

Thanks for that Edgar. My Trig's not too bad then!

The different colours make sense and the rest of the descripption fits in with Harry Woodman's. I can't see any evidence of the bar you mention in the photo (no 32 in the Datafile Special btw) -I think that would have been used when the sight was mounted betweeen twin Lewis guns on the Bristol Fighter and Camel Comic nightfighters. On the single Lewis on the SE5a they seem to be directly mounted on the gun, as I've drawn them.

For modellers in 32nd scale I expect that it might be worth showing some wires for the lights , probably running down the Bowden firing cable, to move up and down when the gun was pulled down for upward firing or changing the magazine.

EDIT I've had another look at the photo and there are two distinct wires running from the gun; the Bowden cable from just behind the pistol grip and another one (presumably the electrical supply) running from the rear of the gun and entering the fuselageon the right side just forward and below the windscreen mounting.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Rowan Broadbent

[sonofjim]

thanks for the info guys Very Illuminating no pun intended !

would the two sights front bead and ring and bead be connected externally then ? perhaps thats what the tube is ?to carry powerto the front sight ?

can any of you good chaps pass on any info about the Bowden cable too and the machanism for the trigger to operate remotley

thanks again really enjoing this learning stuff !

[sonofjim]

early gunsights

just read some great stuff here and also some ace period drawings it would seem the neame sights are virually identical to

the regular ring n bead type mounted the same externally like you chaps said except wired for a plug/battery !

should make for a really easy convrsion !

Edited June 26, 2009 by sonofjim