Typhoon FAQ

[Oliver]

So here i am reading about our new beloved Typhoon, and yet i'm get rather confused, can anyone explain to me a few things please?

Tranches, block 5's ect. What the hell? Now as far as i know Tranch 1 was just for air superiority, Tranch 2 is true multi-role (which i'm led to believe we won't get for ages yet), and god knows what Tranch 3 can do, so what all this business with blocks? and what are the differences?

AESA radars, i'm also led to believe that these are the bees knees, so why didn't they put them into the Tiffie to begin with?

I heard some refer to the Tiffie as only a 4.5 generation aircraft as opposed to the Rafale, F-22 and 35 and even the Su-30 series which are 5th gen. Whats all this about then?

And finally, and probably the question that will start a war (but please don't), how does it compare to contemporary aircraft?

Edited August 1, 2007 by Oliver

[zeke]

I can answer the one about the radars cos I was involved with the development process at StAthan.

The new radars are very efficient but require a new breed of di-electric material to look through, it has to be very radar transparent, far more than the old multi-core/layer stuff sused on the older birds like the Tornado. This development took a long time and lot of money with some truly stupid faliures by QinetiQ and BAe Systems. They're only just beginning to get this bit right, so they are only just beginning to get the radars working correctly. And that's without the development woes of the electronics side of it, of which I only know the shop floor rumors.

As for how does the tea-bag compare?...well...it's better than the F-15, it's been proved to be better than the Su-30 at anything over short range, the Rafale is still an unknown quantity, but it's going to be about the same although the Tiffie will probably have the edge in air-to-air because it has some awesome systems...as for the Raptor...it's believed (but only time will tell) that nothing comes close to that beastie yet.

Hope that helps a little?...

[Phil @ Flory Models]

I read a piece on the Rafale v's Super Hornets and the Rafale held it's own at Close to medium range but faired less well at the Long rang engagement But it to is still developing it's tactics and system. As time goes on they will get better and better.

[XV107]

There now follows a demonstration of how to make yourself unpopular with your first post by making it insufferable long and dull....

Tranches, block 5's ect. What the hell? Now as far as i know Tranch 1 was just for air superiority, Tranch 2 is true multi-role (which i'm led to believe we won't get for ages yet), and god knows what Tranch 3 can do, so what all this business with blocks? and what are the differences?

This is quite complex, because each Tranche is divided into Batches and each batch is sub-divided into Blocks. The difference between Blocks relates to the capability of the airframes in that Block at the time of delivery, and essentially boils down to software and equipment differences.

For a breakdown of some of the detail, pull up a sandbag and I'll try to explain...

The idea behind the Tranches was simply that they represented a certain number of aircraft procured by the partner nations. The Tranches didn't necessarily mean that there were to be different capabilities between Tranches, although - for instance - new processors were/are to be fitted to Tranche 2 aircraft, which changes the aircraft's avionics configuration.

The Blocks within each Tranche represent a certain level of capability; it is possible to upgrade the airframes to later Block standards.

Thus Block 1 means aircraft at the initial operating capability - able to do basic air defence tasks operable radar in initial form but no defensive aids subsystem (DASS) fitted and AIM-9, AIM-120B and ASRAAM capability; ASRAAM can be used in 'analogue' and 'digital' forms; digital integration gives the weapon more capability - Tranche 1 airframes could only use it in 'analogue'. All of them were two-seaters and were, in essence, designed for getting pilots familiar with the aircraft.

Block 2 airframes have basic sensor fusion - the ability to fuse data provided by the radar, the IFF, and the datalink to provide enhanced situational awareness. The DASS was at 'initial' standard, ASRAAM was given digital integration and the Iris-T being used by the partner nations other than Britain was also integrated at 'Phase 1' standard. The initial version of Direct Voice Input (DVI) for the pilot to interface with the aircraft by voice was included. The air to air carefree handling flight control software is also in this block.

Block 5 aircraft have the full carefree handling package, full DVI, the PIRATE FLIR/IRST, full sensor fusion (so even better situational awareness) and a full DASS (as well as ECM, Chaff and Flares it has a towed radar decoy - apart from the German aircraft). There's also a missile approach warning system (MAWS).

Originally, this Block was planned to do air-air only. However, since the RAF wants to get the Typhoon into the air-ground game earlier than anticipated, the Block now has some enhanced capabilites. The flight control software has the fully-fledged air to ground carefree handling package included - to give, for instance, the ability to strafe ground targets accurately - and swing-role capability, although only the RAF will use this.

The RAF has an 'austere' air-ground package on its Block 5s. This means the ability to employ the Enhanced Paveway II and a Litening designator pod. 'Austere' is the wrong word in many ways, since it gives the Typhoon the ability to carry more Paveways than a Tornado GR4 can manage (assuming that the GR4 has its wing tanks fitted) and the Litening is a far more capable pod than TIALD - still found on the Tornado (although being replaced by Litening on that fleet of aircraft).

The RAF intends to upgrade all its Tranche 1 aircraft to Block 5 standard.

Tranche 2 will start with Block 8 airframes, which wil be very similar to the Block 5 as originally planned, albeit with different mission computers; Block 10 will be similar to Block 8, but with an improved air-ground capability. Block 15 aircraft will have the ability to use Taurus, Storm Shadow and Brimstone (although the latter weapon may, according to some reports, be integrated earlier). It'll also be able to use GPS weapons - JDAM and Paveway IV. A new designator pod will be integrated on this Block (to replace Litening III), and the Meteor missile is scheduled to enter service with this Block as well.

Tranche 3 hasn't been contracted for yet, so it's not known what exactly will differ between Trance 2 and Tranche 3; there are suggestions that the AESA radar will be fitted to Tranche 3.

Sorry that's rather long and complicated - and that's a simplified version....

I heard some refer to the Tiffie as only a 4.5 generation aircraft as opposed to the Rafale, F-22 and 35 and even the Su-30 series which are 5th gen. Whats all this about then?

This is usually a line spun by pro-Rafale and pro-Su-30 types, I'm afraid. As well as being violently in favour of their preferred aircraft, they are violently hostile to the Typhoon and take every opportunity to denigrate it. They're found residing on various aviation fora (particularly that of Key Publishing). None of them have flown the Typhoon or the Rafale, and their information comes from unclassified sources and apparent chats with pilots in static displays at airshows. The pilots say 'Yes, I love the Rafale, it's a great aircraft' (Which is true, it is). This is then translated on the internet fora into 'The pilots say that the Typhoon is a pile of and the Rafale is a far better aeroplane that can drop bombs to within a millimetre's accuracy every time, can kill any aeroplane flying apart from the F-22, and it improves the sex life of every patriotic French spotter who praises it on the web' (not so true...).

In essence, though, 1st generation fighters were the early jets; second generation fighters things like the F-4; 3rd generation aircraft like the F-15, F-16 and original model F/A-18. Thanks to sensor and weapons upgrades, there is a case for saying that these aircraft have evolved into 3.5 Generation aircraft - not quite 4th generation, but better than the baseline 3rd Generation types.

Typhoon, Rafale, Su-30, Gripen and the MiG-29 in its latest form are arguably 4th generation aircraft. In a variety of ways - ease of maintenance, sensor capability, weapons capability, etc, etc - their capabilites are an order of magnitude greater than the 3rd generation.

The 5th Generation fighters, despite protests from the French and Russian juries are... actually at the moment, is, not are, the F-22. It can do a variety of interesting things with its ability to supercruise, fuse sensor information, etc, etc and - of course - has the stealth characteristics lacking on the 4th Generation types. The F-35 should have similar capabilities.

Does that help?

[Oliver]

Wow thats a great post!, Thanks ever so much for that as that clears up alot of my questions.

[KiwiSteve]

XV107 cheers for the post very interesting reading

[hatchet]

Great post XV107!!!

Wasn't there talk about vectored thrust on Tranche 3? Or is that an internet urban myth?

[zeke]

XV107...you ROCK!...

[Mike]

That was a very informative post, and not even slightly dry - thanks XV107

[XV107]

The idea that Tranche 3 could be fitted with vectored thrust isn't a complete myth - a vectoring nozzle has already been developed for the EJ200 - thing is, while the engine might have a suitable nozzle designed for it, to maximise the potential would mean that some boffins would need to sit down in front of computers and re-write bits of the flight control software, which could be expensive. This means that no-one's really thinking about this yet.

Also, IRIS-T is a phenomenally manoeuvrable missile, with ASRAAM (slightly different design philosophy rather than inferiro design) not far behind it. AIUI, this means that against current and near-term air to air threats the manoeuvrability of the weapons coupled with Typhoon's agility is thought sufficient to be able to cope with them.

[geedubelyer]

There now follows a demonstration of how to make yourself unpopular with your first post by making it insufferable long and dull....(~snippety snip snip~)

Hardly.......you'll have to try much harder than that to become unpopular mate.

Does that help?

Absolutely!

No apolgies necessary XV107, very interesting reading. Welcome aboard and please keep posting these jewels of information.

[hatchet]

Also, IRIS-T is a phenomenally manoeuvrable missile, with ASRAAM (slightly different design philosophy rather than inferiro design) not far behind it. AIUI, this means that against current and near-term air to air threats the manoeuvrability of the weapons coupled with Typhoon's agility is thought sufficient to be able to cope with them.

Isn't ASRAAM supposed to rely mainly on speed, opposed to IRIS-T, AIM-9X and Python IV/V, who relies mainly on agility?