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British Camo Rubber masks


wally7506

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1. I made exactly that last point in my post.

2. As to DAP CAC employees being unreliable witnesses, ............ near to identical painting in my recollection.

1. I have no idea what you are referring to - what point? The point I was making is that (regardless of the real situation) you are drawing unwarranted conclusions from your anecdotal evidence. (Essentially - "I couldn't find it in Australia, therefore it doesn't exist in the world")

2. Again - DAP guys could paint well, therefore they are reliable witnesses. That's called drawing an unwarranted conclusion and it's silly!

Where did I say they were unreliable witnesses - if they say they didn't use masks in Australia, well i believe them.

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Without wanting to rekindle the flames of this otherwise interesting discussion, I just wanted to point out that the rubber shortage often mentioned here was mainly a consequence of the Japanese invasion and conquest of the Dutch East Indies: before the early summer of 1942 there was no major shortage of rubber for the Allies and after that date American synthetic rubber production increased to meet the request.

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Without wanting to rekindle the flames of this otherwise interesting discussion, I just wanted to point out that the rubber shortage often mentioned here was mainly a consequence of the Japanese invasion and conquest of the Dutch East Indies: before the early summer of 1942 there was no major shortage of rubber for the Allies and after that date American synthetic rubber production increased to meet the request.

And Malaya!

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Without wanting to rekindle the flames of this otherwise interesting discussion, I just wanted to point out that the rubber shortage often mentioned here was mainly a consequence of the Japanese invasion and conquest of the Dutch East Indies: before the early summer of 1942 there was no major shortage of rubber for the Allies and after that date American synthetic rubber production increased to meet the request.

No shortage? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_W/NG_350

Why the canvas hand-grips then!

G

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No shortage? http://en.wikipedia..../Ariel_W/NG_350

Why the canvas hand-grips then!

G

As I said, there was no major shortage before mid-1942.

From the wikipedia article you linked, under the "Production" heading:

Rubber items were impossible to source from 1942 because of a shortage of rubber
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Just to point out that there's a Spitfire (in the factory) with roundel masked off- looks like paper- on Spit the Hist p.612

Appendix IX, p622 is the part of "the History" which deals with painting, markings, smoothing surfaces and overcoating etc. As mentioned, the only masking to be seen, is that required for the geometric shapes of the national markings.

G

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Appendix IX, p622 is the part of "the History" which deals with painting, markings, smoothing surfaces and overcoating etc. As mentioned, the only masking to be seen, is that required for the geometric shapes of the national markings.

G

As an old professor of mine once said 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' - STH is not infallible, and it only touches on Spitfire camouflage and markings

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As an old professor of mine once said 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' - STH is not infallible, and it only touches on Spitfire camouflage and markings

Very wise advice.

Theory is just belief in an idea.

G

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Very wise advice.

Theory is just belief in an idea.

G

I'd say the theory is the idea itself, not the belief in it. If you're into Karl Popper, a theory is that hypothesis which best resists falsification as an explanation of observed phenomena.

Best regards,

Joseph

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Personally I'd distinguish theory from hypothesis and both from speculation, although all three are often conflated.

But Dave's old professor was spot on. In modelling too much is made of "there are no photos showing". And more than 70 years later new photos are still emerging to confound us.

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If you're into Karl Popper, a theory is that hypothesis which best resists falsification as an explanation of observed phenomena.

Never heard of him- any relation to John Popper from the band "Blues Traveler"? :coolio:

"Best resists falsification"? I don't know. But yeah, a theory is something still requiring proof- if adequately provided it becomes a law. But we modelers know that "laws are made to be broken"!

As for absence of evidence... I thought the old sage was Graham Boak- that's where I heard it first!

bob

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As for absence of evidence... I thought the old sage was Graham Boak- that's where I heard it first!

bob

Speaking of whom, where is Graham? I've noticed with some concern that he hasn't posted here or any where else for quite some time. I hope that he is ok.

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Yeah, Graham's fine- he's just taking a break from internetting. Though he did say something about model railroading, so maybe there's cause for concern after all...

bob

I remember a similar cause for concern some years ago regarding a friend of mine who used to travel miles taking photos, make notes and do not a bad job with his models.

Suddenly gave it all up and became a campanologist.

DR

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks Nick, Bob. I am not giving up the internet altogether, but am trying to avoid Britmodeller for a while as it is the most time-consuming one.

When I retired I decided that I would make a long-considered model railway layout, but not having got significantly further up to now (other than a steady decline in what I realised was over-ambitious planning!) I thought I'd better get on with it or I'd never do it. So for the next few months I will be spending any large chunks of spare time on the railway and other modelling will have to take a back seat. Much of the approach and some of the techniques read across, of course, but many are new and a little daunting - but interesting. I'll say no more about it on this forum: if you have an interest contact me offline.

Back to masking.

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  • 8 months later...

Edgar,

Apart from the masking question, that correspondence is most interesting in other ways. I had no idea they were suffering paint roughness as bad as 10 thou, i.e. 1/100 of an inch. That's about equivalent to P80 grit production paper! Shocking. Even the 1/1000 of an inch they considered to be the threshold of acceptable spec is a bit grim, not much finer than P600 wet and dry.

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From what I'm finding, a large part of the problem seems to have been the ability (or lack of it) to grind the pigment to the right consistency; in Kew, there's a whole file, in which manufacturers tried, and failed, throughout 1940, to get the required smooth finish. There are several hints that Sky, though given the "Type S" designation, was actually glossy, but, possibly due to being used underneath, this was accepted.

Incidentally, post-war, "blending" (to a maximum, not a target, 2" ) once again became acceptable; maybe the rubbing-down, which had become normal behaviour by then, plus the use of a gloss varnish, made any potential roughness less of a problem.

Edgar

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