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Il-2 Colours....


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#1 Bazza

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 10:15 AM

HELP!! I've just got the,(excellent) 1/72 Academy Ilyushin Il-2."Stormovik"
i'm confused,what WEM colours are applicable to this aircraft ??
Research material's not exactly thick on the ground,Y'know....!!(considering,over 36,000 examples built !!)
It's the Greens,Light/Dark,the Earth Brown,& the Light underside Blue.
Cheers Baz

#2 John B (Sc)

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 10:39 AM

The Russians weren't terribly bothered about colour schemes or shades of paint then Bazza.
They used all sorts of paints and all sorts of shades in emergencies. Some planes got minimal painting. Tank and tractor dark green paints were used at times. When you are churning out 36,000 copies of what was essentially a very fine flying tank cum artillery piece to save the Rodina, I guess standard colours don't matter much.

Different factories had quite different shades at various times apparently. No doubt fading, for the few machines that lasted any time, was an issue too, in summer.

So, your choice !

John B

#3 Bazza

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 10:56 AM

The Russians weren't terribly bothered about colour schemes or shades of paint then Bazza.
They used all sorts of paints and all sorts of shades in emergencies. Some planes got minimal painting. Tank and tractor dark green paints were used at times. When you are churning out 36,000 copies of what was essentially a very fine flying tank cum artillery piece to save the Rodina, I guess standard colours don't matter much.

Different factories had quite different shades at various times apparently. No doubt fading, for the few machines that lasted any time, was an issue too, in summer.

So, your choice !

John B

Thanks John,pretty much true,that,
however i've sent a similar message to WEM,see what THEY say.....
(one thing for sure it won't be a "pristine" aircraft !!)
Cheers Baz.

#4 dragonlanceHR

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 02:11 PM

It's really not so simple. There were camo standards and factories applied them to the fullest possible extent.

IL-2 carried the green-black camo over light blue.

Use AII Green with Black AMT-6 over AII Blue.

Note that Black is more matte than the green and blue, and could be thinly applied.

Edited by dragonlanceHR, 07 February 2009 - 02:12 PM.


#5 TonyT

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 02:43 PM

As a long time IL2 game skinner, these will help you :)

http://vvs.hobbyvist...earch/index.php

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/

Everything you want should be there

#6 John B (Sc)

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 04:19 PM

It's really not so simple. There were camo standards and factories applied them to the fullest possible extent.

IL-2 carried the green-black camo over light blue.

Use AII Green with Black AMT-6 over AII Blue.

Note that Black is more matte than the green and blue, and could be thinly applied.



Oh yes, sorry, I didn't mean to imply there were no standards. Just that in the heat of the time, those were more honoured in the breach. Broadly, green and black over pale blue, with white paint overcoating in winter.

A Russian friend I used to work with was also a modeller. His father had worked as an engineer in one of the aircraft factories rapidly moved to the East when the Germans looked like taking Moscow. He thought it hilarious when we asked about paint schemes and paint shades. At the most desperate point, some machines were sent out with no internal coatings at all and very skimpy top coats without primer. He said the life of a Sturmovik was measured in days from delivery at one time. They took the view that those machines without proper finish would have to be replaced soon if not lost in action, but that didn't matter. The aircraft were expendable items. The pilots slightly less so, though the USSR's loss rate was horrific to our thinking.

Once things calmed down, of course aircraft were properly painted, though often to much lower standards than we think of as normal now. Ground crews who 'adopted' an aircrft would often improve the finish apparently.

#7 timbo33

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 07:52 PM

A couple of build threads here might help?

http://hsfeatures.com/il2ir_1.htm

http://www.scalework...p/il2m3sr_1.htm

http://www.hyperscal...1/il2m3jc_1.htm

AeroMaster Decals

Italerei kit review with paint colour call outs

HTH

Tim

Edited by timbo33, 07 February 2009 - 08:10 PM.


#8 Calum

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 09:35 PM

I finished a Accurate Miniatures IL-2 late last year. I'd decided to it using paints etc I already had. So I used the now unfashionable Humbrol enamels for the green (11) and grey (32) but not the brown (119) or blue. I used 118 for the brown as it looked close enough. I brike the rule and bout the model maser Russian blue for the undersides but it looks pretty close to Tamyia XF-23 light blue.

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#9 Bazza

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:56 PM

As a long time IL2 game skinner, these will help you :)

http://vvs.hobbyvist...earch/index.php

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/

Everything you want should be there

Thanks you are a darling,(Again i could....oh,you know !!) i wanted to know what the "Russki" colours looked like.
So,Cheers a big deal!!
P.S still concentrating on that "Meat-Box" model,(nearly done),again thanks !!
Baz.

#10 Bazza

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:59 PM

I finished a Accurate Miniatures IL-2 late last year. I'd decided to it using paints etc I already had. So I used the now unfashionable Humbrol enamels for the green (11) and grey (32) but not the brown (119) or blue. I used 118 for the brown as it looked close enough. I brike the rule and bout the model maser Russian blue for the undersides but it looks pretty close to Tamyia XF-23 light blue.

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Cheers Calum,lovely Pic's.Good Model,is it the one i praised earlier ??
One point though...
iTHOUGHT the Il-2 carried bombs in the Wing Roots a la Fairey Battle ??
(Rather than hung externally ??)
Cheers Baz.

#11 Bazza

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 02:02 PM

It's really not so simple. There were camo standards and factories applied them to the fullest possible extent.

IL-2 carried the green-black camo over light blue.

Use AII Green with Black AMT-6 over AII Blue.

Note that Black is more matte than the green and blue, and could be thinly applied.

Hi,i also noticed that the Il-2 also carried AII Brown as well......
Cheers Baz

#12 TonyT

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 01:00 PM

Thanks you are a darling,(Again i could....oh,you know !!) i wanted to know what the "Russki" colours looked like.
So,Cheers a big deal!!
P.S still concentrating on that "Meat-Box" model,(nearly done),again thanks !!
Baz.



Well seeing you feel like that, then here are the colours of simmers heaven we used to use to skin, gives you the FS codes and the RGB codes for it.

http://www.simmerspa...ors-Russia.html

All countries colours are listed on the left menu under colour swatches, see

http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/

If you want markings etc to print off and make decals from

http://www.simmerspa...w...do=cat&id=3

go here for various fonts

http://www.simmerspa...w...do=cat&id=2

Have loads of links from my skinning days :)

#13 Redboost

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 01:30 PM

Hi there,

Recently I finished the Academy single seater kit. The colors are AII Green (lighter version), AII Black and AII Light Blue. I used Gunze paints for upper colors, H312 Green and H12 Flat Black (with little white to tone it down). The Light Blue comes from Aeromaster range, but it could be find in the Gunze too, if required.
May I add some hints, please ingore the instructions as the camouflage pattern and recommended colors are wrong. The Brown/Green combination was never used on single seat Il-2's. The very early machines very Dark Green over Light Blue, later the Black/Green patterns were inntroduced. There were also some other variants using "emergency" colors in case the regular colors were temporarily unavailable. The Il-2's were manufactured in three factories and each factory usually used their own "standards" (it is simplified, but basically true...).
Of note is fact that some of the machines featured in the kit could have had wooden fuselage rear and wing outer parts and different armament (Shvak cannons instead of Vja located inboard). For example, the Il-2 I built had wooden fuselage with external stringers I made of plastic profiles. The best way is to look at the photos, albeit they are very rare...
Good luck with your Shturmovik!

Libor

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#14 John Thompson

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 10:08 PM

These may help:
http://free.hit.bg/g...2-schemes1.html
http://free.hit.bg/g...2-schemes2.html
http://free.hit.bg/g...2-schemes3.html
http://free.hit.bg/g.....VS Colors.htm

John

#15 Bazza

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 12:00 PM

Hiya,so far,so good....Thanks,everyone for the helpful input !!
Keep it coming.
Cheers Baz.

Hi there,

Recently I finished the Academy single seater kit. The colors are AII Green (lighter version), AII Black and AII Light Blue. I used Gunze paints for upper colors, H312 Green and H12 Flat Black (with little white to tone it down). The Light Blue comes from Aeromaster range, but it could be find in the Gunze too, if required.
May I add some hints, please ingore the instructions as the camouflage pattern and recommended colors are wrong. The Brown/Green combination was never used on single seat Il-2's. The very early machines very Dark Green over Light Blue, later the Black/Green patterns were inntroduced. There were also some other variants using "emergency" colors in case the regular colors were temporarily unavailable. The Il-2's were manufactured in three factories and each factory usually used their own "standards" (it is simplified, but basically true...).
Of note is fact that some of the machines featured in the kit could have had wooden fuselage rear and wing outer parts and different armament (Shvak cannons instead of Vja located inboard). For example, the Il-2 I built had wooden fuselage with external stringers I made of plastic profiles. The best way is to look at the photos, albeit they are very rare...
Good luck with your Shturmovik!

Libor

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That IS a nice Model,(hope mine,eventually looks just as decent ??)
Cheers Baz.

#16 Calum

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 07:29 AM

Cheers Calum,lovely Pic's.Good Model,is it the one i praised earlier ??
One point though...
iTHOUGHT the Il-2 carried bombs in the Wing Roots a la Fairey Battle ??
(Rather than hung externally ??)
Cheers Baz.


Hi Baz, dunno about the bombs. I just followed the instructions :winkgrin:

#17 Bazza

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:16 AM

Hi Baz, dunno about the bombs. I just followed the instructions :winkgrin:

Hi there,well of course you did.....
But i just HOPE that Academy got their info correct,(actually make that "Accurate Miniatures"!!)??
Instructions aren't "be all & end all",sometimes.
Having said that,their Paint schemes,"ahem !!",are not really correct either...(AII Brown not used,on Single-Seaters)
Despite this "be-atch" It IS a damn good kit !! You did a cracking job on it,(yeah,i know said it before...!!) ;-)
G'day,Baz
(Hope you're not affected by the AWFUL Bushfires??)

Edited by Bazza, 11 February 2009 - 11:18 AM.


#18 dad's lad

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 11:20 AM

Hi Baz, dunno about the bombs. I just followed the instructions :winkgrin:


Calum,

You stated "So I used the now unfashionable Humbrol enamels for the green (11) and grey (32) but not the brown (119) or blue. I used 118 for the brown as it looked close enough. "

Humbrol 11 is silver so I'm assuming you used either 116 or 117 and missed a number off? I'd be interested to know which one you did use.

Thanks

Clive

#19 timbo33

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 05:04 PM

iTHOUGHT the Il-2 carried bombs in the Wing Roots a la Fairey Battle ??
(Rather than hung externally ??)


Hi Baz,

The kit does have small bomb doors either side of the wing root but I assume these were for fairly small bombs (anti personnel or incendiary?) I imagine that use in action dictated that they started hanging bigger (armour piercing?) bombs on that they couldn't fit inside....

#20 dragonlanceHR

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 10:26 PM

Hi Baz,

The kit does have small bomb doors either side of the wing root but I assume these were for fairly small bombs (anti personnel or incendiary?) I imagine that use in action dictated that they started hanging bigger (armour piercing?) bombs on that they couldn't fit inside....


Each bomb bay could accommodate one 100kg bomb or a small bomb carrier.

With small bomb carriers Il-2 could carry 12-216(!) smaller bombs, from 2,5 to 25kg, including fire bombs.

The main panzer-killer was the excellent PTAB, a 2,5kg shaped charge bomblet.