Jim Kiker Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hi all, As part of a series of PR Spitfires, I have made a start on a PR I in 1/48 scale using the Tamiya Mk I kit as a basis. So far I have been doing some updates to the basic kit and now it's time to dive into the build up itself. I have the Spit "bible," the Model Alliance book on PR Spitfires, and several articles from magazines and from the internet regarding these early PR Spits and their modifications. I know that two cameras were fitted into the wings "in the in-board gun bays." Problem is, I have seen a couple of models of the PR I's with the camera ports in different locations. The result is that I am still a bit confused as to the camera locations. Can anyone provide or point me to a picture or reliable drawing that shows these camera ports? As for markings, I will be doing N3071 from Nov 1939. I know the overall scheme is Camotint, and I know that is a forerunner of Sky. Those first two PR I's were taken from Mk I production; does that mean the wheel wells and interior landing gear doors would have been in silver paint, or already painted in black/white? Finally, I have seen PR I models with and without roundels on the bottom of the wings. One picture I have of N3071 looks to me like there are roundels below the wings, and if correct, you would see roundels in all six positions; I think all of them would be Type A. And if all that is correct, what size roundels? I'm thinking 36" or 42" on the wings, maybe 30" on the fuselage? This is a lot of details I know, but I want to get her right for the time and place. Thanks in advance, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rogers Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Hi Jim, Good luck with this, what conversion parts are you using, the Pavla set? Regarding the cameras I think that this aircraft (N3071) and N3069, the two that were designated PR1A from the Mk1 production line, both had the cameras mounted , as you say, in place of the inboard guns, so I would certainly go with that. I would guess that the wheel wells would be airframe silver if the aircraft was taken from the production line, and again regarding the roundels, looking at the Pavla set you just get the serial numbers and two roundels. Presumably that was all she had. Bearing in mind these were the first Spitfires used in this role, they were probably experimenting with different markings and changing them through the marks as they went. I'm sure someone will come along with pictures that completely contradict all of this, be interesting to see how much photographic evidence there actually is of these early ones. All the best, will be watching with interest as I plan to get round to these PRU Spitfires one day as well. Edited January 22, 2009 by Doug Rogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollieholmes Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Im also planning to tackle the PR Spitfire soon so this is of interest to me. I already have completed the pair of XIXs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rogers Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Im also planning to tackle the PR Spitfire soon so this is of interest to me. I already have completed the pair of XIXs. Which kits/conversions did you use Ollie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kiker Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hi Doug, Not Ollie, but I'll chime in. While I have the Pavla early PR set you mentioned, the PR I will only require a new canopy. Falcon makes tons of beautiful vacuformed canopies, often in sets. One of them is just Spitfire canopies for a variety of kits and it includes several PR canopies, including one for a PR I, a PR IV, and a PR XI that I can remember. Highly recommended! I have done several other PR Spits, including a PR XIX using the Academy Mk XIVc kit, a pink FR IX using the Hasegawa kit, and a PR IV based on the same Tamiya Mk I kit, all in 1/48 scale. Airwaves makes a series of resin sets for many PR Spitfires and they are once again available through Hannants. Much useful stuff. Also, Quickboost is now producing two nice sets with conversion bits to do the PR XI, and if you buy a set of Xtra Decals for 1/48 scale B type roundels you will have most of your markings in hand. I wrote a couple of articles on the PR XIX and the FR IX; you can find them over on Hyperscale at www.hyperscale.com ; look for them in the Articles and Galleries section. Lots of how-to there. Feel free to write me off line as well; I'll be happy to share what I have learned while immersed in the Spitfire PR-end of the swimming pool. Cheers, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rogers Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Ah yes, I thought I had seen an article with your name on it before Jim, the work you did on your MkXIX was really good. I'm not sure which way I'll go when I do my MkXIX, I see Heritage Aviation do an all resin kit, or I do already have the Aeroclub Mk21 conversion set, from which I understand you can use Academy or ICM wings to make a MkXIX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollieholmes Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I used the Heritage Aviation kit for my XIXs. I would be happy to post some photos here of them if people are interested. For the Merlin powerd versions i plan to use a mix of the Tamiya Mk1 and the Hasegawa MKIX and Aires conversion kits. Ive got markings for all versions apart from the PR Type E which i am at a loss for. Does anyone have any suggestions for this type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rogers Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) I'd be interested in seeing some pics of your MkXIX's Ollie, maybe in the Ready for Inspection section, don't want to hijack Jim's thread.. I can't find anything for a PR1E either. Edited January 23, 2009 by Doug Rogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn R Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hello Jim, I think this photo answers some of your questions:- Taken from 'Above all unseen' by Edward Leaf, PSL 1997. Here is my rendition of the machine in 1/32 scale:- Good luck with the model. Regards, Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kiker Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hi Glenn, Wow, great picture! I copied it into my photoshop program and lightened it up and sure enough, there be roundels under the wings! Very useful and much appreciated. I'm glad you posted the picture of your model as well; nice work! Thanks and cheers, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rogers Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Certainly answers the question about the colour of the wheels/wheel wells. Great picture Glenn. Nice work on that model too, looks like a lot of work has gone into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollieholmes Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I will take some new photos of the XIX pair and post them in the ready for inspection section later. Keep an eye out for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert A Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Jim, You're Spitfire "bible" isn't quite correct. In my copy of Dr Alfred Price's "The Spitfire Story" there is a photo, on page 94, of an F.24 camera installation in the PR1A. The machine gun bay itself is too thin for the camera body so the camera is fitted into the inboard ammunition bay, between the two inboard MG bays, with the camera motor in the outer gun bay. There is a hole cut in the lower wing, which is glazed. Remember these were local mods part of "cottonizing" the aircraft, whic also included removing all the armour, radios and anything else that was considered dead weight and would effect the top speed of the aircraft. They also filled the panel lines with plaster of paris and polished the aircraft to a high sheen. Sorry but haven't got a scanner to show you the pic. Glenn, That's a bloody stunning looking build as usual. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlanceHR Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Jim,You're Spitfire "bible" isn't quite correct. In my copy of Dr Alfred Price's "The Spitfire Story" there is a photo, on page 94, of an F.24 camera installation in the PR1A. Here is the photo. Fair use etc. Copyright Cassel & Co Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kiker Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi all, To be fair, the "camera in the gun bay" comment I made earlier did not stem from the Spitfire bible, but from another source. My confusion stemmed from having two sources say different things. In any case, having verification of the correct camera locations is very much appreciated. Thanks to all who have assisted! For anyone who may be interested, I have put together a little document with pictures to illustrate how one may improve the overall look of the 1/48 scale Tamiya Spitfires, quite apart from doing various reconnaissance versions. If you are interested, send me an e-mail directly and I'll send a copy along via return e-mail. Thanks again and cheers, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kiker Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hi all, Thanks again for the additional information you have provided. Work on my PR I is proceeding, but I have an additional information request to make. I have the "On Target" booklet on the PR Spitfires which includes a four-view color profile of N3071. and I have the "Spitfire: The History" book with a picture of the aircraft (though it's not a really good one). I now know there were roundels in all six positions in December 1939, but the On Target profile does not show the lower roundels. It also shows the 'cheese cutter' IFF wires. The author cites the book "The Spitfire Story" by Alfred Price as the source for this profile. I do not have that book, which brings me to the question. Is there a picture of N3071 in Dr. Price's book which shows the placement of the upper wing roundels? I believe they were the Type A, but I am not sure what size they were and where they were located along the wing. As for the IFF wires, I understand that they were not yet introduced in the late 1939 time frame. Is that correct? And if so, would they have been removed as part of the Cottonizing process? I would think so... I have several pictures of other early Spitfire PR's, but I am not comfortable trying to just emulate their roundel placements- there is wide variety among those early PR's. If anyone has a copy of Dr. Price's book, I would like to verify the roundel size/location, and if possible, obtain a scan of any pictures in the book that shows this placement. Thanks in advance, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin S-K Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Dear All, So much said in this thread about the Spitfire PR versions... Difficult to know where to start.... I am no expert, but it is a field I am interested in, being in the Photo Recce SIG. Have sent info to Ollie already, including a few bits, having moved onto others Recce subjects.... Have most of the books and made a few models. Most happy to send CD/DVD of my photos and information, if it would interest any one. Collected and scanned as much as I could find.. Feel free to email me, [email protected] Will try to keep up to date with this thread. Ollie the rest is coming, keep pestering me..... I am off work next week so hopefully will send parcel. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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