Gazontipede Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I'm looking at starting a 1/72 Breguet 693 ground attack aircraft using the Mistercraft (yes, I know, I couldn't locate an original Heller) release soonish. (After I finish my Airfix rag wing Hurri.) I plan to use this as an exercise in scratch-building and kit mangling that, if things go badly belly up, will be no real loss. (Mistercraft remember?) One undesirable aspect of the kit is that the Gnome-Rhône 14M radials that power the little beastie are represented by simple blank plates with a central circular plinth for attaching the prop assembly to. I'd like to be able to substitute a somewhat more detailed alternative that might charitably be regarded as a more realistic representation of the donks in question. Problem is, I'm certain I lack the skill to be able to scratch build accurate little 14 cylinder radials from evergreen sheet and bits of sprue and wire... I've had a bit of a look online to see if there are aftermarket Gnome-Rhône 14M engines available in 1/72 and have not found any. I've had a few other ideas such as (somehow) sourcing engines from the old Airfix 1/72 Hs-129, cannibalising an old FROG Oxford for its Cheetahs (to simply represent the front bank), buying a pair of 3D printed A-S Tigers from Shapeways and filing them down a bit and so on. Does anyone have any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 There are two options I know of for the Gnome engine, Vector brand or Engines & Things. The former is cast in numerous resin parts and I think you have to provide your own wire for the rods. The second brand I believe is a single piece resin casting. http://www.neomega-resin.com/gnome-rhone-gr-14m4m5-172nd-679-p.asp http://www.planet.eon.net/~engthg/ - you will have to view the pdf file and search out the engine... regards, Jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I see they do list an GR 14M, if it is as good as the Bristol Perseus & A.S.Tiger engines I've bought from them, you'd be well served by them for that sort of application. Steve. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Hello Since you are into scratch building, you may choose to build Br.691 or Br.695 instead. The former had Hispano-Suiza 14 Ab 10/11 engines and the latter was powered by P&W SB 4G Wasp Junior. Wasp Junior also powered Boeing Stearmans, Oxfords, Vultee BT-13s, DHC-2 Beavers and plenty other types, so I imagine its AM replacement cannot be that rare. Unless you rob say, Lockheed Electra kit for everything in front of firewalls apart from propellers you would have to scratch build cowlings, though. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazontipede Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Wow, thanks Jack! That was quick! I must admit I'm now starting to seriously doubt my ability to do google searches! The Vector/neomega engines look gorgeous and are probably a bit too good for the likes of the kit! As Steve has pointed out, Engines & Things do indeed make 1/72 GR 14Ms: (72103 Gnome Rhone 14M 14 cyl. radial for Brequet 693 2 engines $10.00) so I'll go with them. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 The Neomega one will be far better than the Enginesnthings, based on what I have seen of their products. The Enginesnthings ones I was sold were just blobs- maybe no improvement on what you have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazontipede Posted April 10, 2018 Author Share Posted April 10, 2018 Hi Jure, I've only dabbled with scratch-building in the very distant past and this is just an experiment to see how things go nowadays. At this stage I'll keep it relatively simple although if all goes well, who knows? Thanks for the cautionary advice Ed. I've done a bit of google image searching on Engines & Things products and am reasonably satisfied that they will be adequate for my needs. Bear in mind that the kit itself is derived from a half century old and rather basic Heller original. It isn't exactly an Eduard Profipack! Not by a long chalk! The Neomega engines are absolutely amazing looking which makes me think that they would be rather too fine to waste on this little project of mine! Thanks again to everybody for their input. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 13 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said: Hello Since you are into scratch building, you may choose to build Br.691 or Br.695 instead. The former had Hispano-Suiza 14 Ab 10/11 engines and the latter was powered by P&W SB 4G Wasp Junior. Wasp Junior also powered Boeing Stearmans, Oxfords, Vultee BT-13s, DHC-2 Beavers and plenty other types, so I imagine its AM replacement cannot be that rare. Unless you rob say, Lockheed Electra kit for everything in front of firewalls apart from propellers you would have to scratch build cowlings, though. Cheers Jure Not exactly - actually the Br.695 used the twin-row 14-cylinder R-1535 TWIN Wasp Junior (like the Finnish Fokker D.XXI for example). The aircraft you listed used the single-row 9-cylinder R-985 Wasp Jr. Only the cylinders are the same... Cheers Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C. Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 The other thing with Vector engines -- at least the one I put together, the Nakajima NK1F Sakae 21, for my Hasegawa 1/72 A6M5c, is that it didn't come close to fitting in the kit cowling, no matter how much I thinned it out. They must be scaled down to exact measurements. Great if you are displaying the cowling off, but otherwise ... I would love to hear from anyone who has used any in 1/72 and did not experience that problem. Good luck, Bob 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 You could check with anyone who may not have used the engines on their Italeri Gotha Go-242/244. If they built the glider version, they may have the engines in their spares. https://www.super-hobby.com/products/item_name-2448413.html Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazontipede Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 Thanks for the heads up Bob. Looking at the cowlings in the Mistercraft box, I note that they have reasonably chunky walls so they could probably stand some thinning down without too much trouble. Also, as the intake openings are quite small and cowlings rather tapered, a bit of judicious surgery on the engine heads themselves could probably be gotten away with. We shall see. That's an excellent suggestion Chris, I was thinking along similar lines (with the engines from an Hs-129 - if anyone had made an Argus powered job and had spares for example) but yours sounds much more likely to bear fruit. I'm not at 100 posts though, so I can't as yet post in the wanted forum. Curse you, two-finger typing and introverted nature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Hello My mistake, Michael, thanks for correcting it. Putting P&W SB 4G into a search engine got me nowhere, so I tried with popular name and somehow lost an all important word twin in a process. Gizontipede, I checked how Italeri and Airfix Hs 129 kit's engines look like. Both manufacturers went with a circular plate with half of the front star on it. The former's push rods are much too prominent and the latter's cylinders are tiny, too small even for a WWI rotary engine. Apart from Chris' suggestion about Italeri Gotha you could try with Me 323 V1. She had only four engines so you could use two spares. Of course I doubt kit engine parts' quality is any higher than those of Hs 129 kit. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRK4m Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said: Apart from Chris' suggestion about Italeri Gotha you could try with Me 323 V1. She had only four engines so you could use two spares. Of course I doubt kit engine parts' quality is any higher than those of Hs 129 kit. Cheers Jure Once again, Jure Me 323 had Gnome-Rhone 14N engines - exactly double the size of GR 14M. They only do look similar, but whereas 14M is extremely tiny (1160 CID, thus smaller even than R-1535 Twin Wasp Junior), the GR 14K and 14N Mistral Majors are large beasts of 2360 CID - almost the size of BMW 801 (2560 CID), ASh-82 (2520 CID) and Wright R-2600 Cyclone 14. Better keep on with these Hs 129 engines... Cheers Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Hello Michael Twice in the same thread, that makes me French aero-engines info challenged! A good book on the topic would probably help to cure such special needs. Short term alternative medicine would probably be to keep quiet about G-R engines which is what I am going to do. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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