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Luftawaffe Sabre Mk.6 question..


Artie

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Hi all.....I'm building a Luftwaffe Sabre Mk.6 for a friend who asked me to do it for him...I'm using the Academy kit, with some mods to represent a canadian built CL.13. He wants a JG71 subject, with dark green/dark grey camouflage.

The question here is about the right colours. The decal sheet (from a Revell Canadair CL.13), says "Gelbolive/Basaltgrau, over Silvergrau", and gives some RAL references. To be honest, haven't been able to find any equivalent reference in my limited bibliography. I'd like to stick to my stock of old, trusty Humbrol enamels, but open to Tamiya or Gunze as well....I've got a huge stash of Revell enamels, so would be an option...

Any idea out there..???? TIA and best regards....

 

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43 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Had I ever made one of these, I'd have used whatever my current favourite was for RAF Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey.  If they were anything else I'd be interested to learn just what.

Hi, Graham......I was thinking just the same, the colours seem quite similar to my eyes, but needed some advice before doing a mess up....

What do you think about the underside colour..???? Light grey or matt aluminium...???

Cheers

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The Luftwaffe Mk.5s arrived from Canada via Prestwick and carried the original Canadair BS colours, same as the RAF Sabres.

The Mk.6s however arrived in natural metal and were later camouflaged using German paints to the RAL standard, with top surfaces in RAL 6014 (the green) and RAL 7012 (the dark grey) and lower surfaces in RAL 7001.

The upper surfaces are not too different from the RAF colours, atlhough the green tended to be browner, more like an Olive Drab. If you have Revell's paints you may check if any of these reproduce these colours. IMHO Tamiya's Olive Drab may work fine as well. Alternatively you could just check if your stash of Humbrols paints has anything similar.

RAL7001 is a potentially tricky colour as being named Silbergrau (silver grey) many assume it's some sort of silver, but it is not, it's a light grey with a blueish tinge. Think Medium Sea Grey but lighter. A decent equivalent is FS 36375, just be careful that some modelling paints representing this colour have a too strong blue hue.

 

In any case there are a number of conversion charts around for RAL to Humbrol and other modelling colours, the IPMS Stockholm one is maybe the best known

 

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_germany.htm

 

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Well.....my range of enamel paints is somehow bizarre....from Humbrol, Xtracolors, Testors and Pactra to Revell, with some old tinlets of Gloy colours wich, to my surprise, are still in good condition and working fine. If we talk about acrilyc, a wide range of Gunze and Tamiya, not to mention a bunch of Molak, Humbrol Acrilycs, Vallejo...

will try to find some suitable equivalences amongst all that stuff....

Thanks a lot...!!!

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I have looked at these and if you want enamals then xtracolor have the right colours, and in Acrylic then Hataka do.

 

Other paints dont quite look right for the german colours as they were specific. Of course its your model and you can use what you want, just my experiance that the others just dont look quite right. I would have thought Revell would do them but they dont.

 

Julien

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Hello Artie!

 

I built a 1/32 scale Starfighter in German markings and used a RAL chart to get the colours right.

 

Gelboliv is indeed much browner than British Dark Green (I've been using Hu 75 as DG). Here is my recipe for Gelboliv: 15 parts Hu 159, 4 parts Hu 33 and 2 parts Hu 100. This gave me a paint that is an excellent match for RAL 6014. As Humbrol quality is what it is prepare yourself some further mixing work. Basaltgrau is a very close match for Hu 27; I had to add some white to get a correct shade.

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

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7 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

RAL7001 is a potentially tricky colour as being named Silbergrau (silver grey) many assume it's some sort of silver, but it is not, it's a light grey with a blueish tinge. Think Medium Sea Grey but lighter. A decent equivalent is FS 36375, just be careful that some modelling paints representing this colour have a too strong blue hue.

I guess it is easy to get confused when there is also Weissaluminium (the silver colour used for Starfighters and Phantoms). In some photos it looks like some Starfighters had Silbergrau under surfaces but that may very well be a question about photo reproduction and printing.

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

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13 hours ago, Antti_K said:

 Here is my recipe for Gelboliv: 15 parts Hu 159, 4 parts Hu 33 and 2 parts Hu 100. This gave me a paint that is an excellent match for RAL 6014. As Humbrol quality is what it is prepare yourself some further mixing work. Basaltgrau is a very close match for Hu 27; I had to add some white to get a correct shade.

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

Hi, Antti......very useful advice, indeed....I've tried to mix my own paint following your experience, and must admit I'm surprised...It looks like olive drab to my eyes...I'm not planning to give an excesive weathering to the model, so I hope it tones down after decaling and matt coating....

Cheers

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On 30/03/2018 at 1:53 PM, Giorgio N said:

The Luftwaffe Mk.5s arrived from Canada via Prestwick and carried the original Canadair BS colours, same as the RAF Sabres.

The Mk.6s however arrived in natural metal and were later camouflaged using German paints to the RAL standard, with top surfaces in RAL 6014 (the green) and RAL 7012 (the dark grey) and lower surfaces in RAL 7001.

The upper surfaces are not too different from the RAF colours, atlhough the green tended to be browner, more like an Olive Drab. If you have Revell's paints you may check if any of these reproduce these colours. IMHO Tamiya's Olive Drab may work fine as well. Alternatively you could just check if your stash of Humbrols paints has anything similar.

RAL7001 is a potentially tricky colour as being named Silbergrau (silver grey) many assume it's some sort of silver, but it is not, it's a light grey with a blueish tinge. Think Medium Sea Grey but lighter. A decent equivalent is FS 36375, just be careful that some modelling paints representing this colour have a too strong blue hue.

 

In any case there are a number of conversion charts around for RAL to Humbrol and other modelling colours, the IPMS Stockholm one is maybe the best known

 

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_germany.htm

 

The Luftwaffe Sabre 5's were drawn from the stock of well over 100 Sabre5's cocooned and stored there.

They were checked over by Scottish Aviation and delivered in the Canadian markings, presumably these were repainted in Germany.

The finish varied greatly from downright scruffy to looking brand new with very faded national insignia on some,a number of them were very early production machines.

The camouflage was the standard RAF colours and the saying went that if the camouflage was good enough for the RAF it is good enough for us.

There is a Sabre5 on display at the Gatow museum.

I was There as a 9 year old aero spotter and remember it well

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Further info for you,  the first batch of around 75 aircraft were Mk.5 with hard wings and the small fence . And, as mentioned above, were in standard RCAF/RAF green, grey and PRU blue undersides finish. The follow up Mk.6 Sabres had the slatted wings.

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Just to clear up a popular misconception: the RAF colour scheme came first, and was adopted for RCAF Sabre 5s, 6s etc. Initially it was applied in Europe, but later directly at Canadair. The Luftwaffe Sabre 5s were overhauled at Renfrew and went to Germany in camouflage. The Luftwaffe Sabre 6s were supplied in NMF and painted (IIRC) by Dornier in Germany after delivery, in the Luftwaffe scheme.

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10 hours ago, Artie said:

Hi, Antti......very useful advice, indeed....I've tried to mix my own paint following your experience, and must admit I'm surprised...It looks like olive drab to my eyes...I'm not planning to give an excesive weathering to the model, so I hope it tones down after decaling and matt coating....

Cheers

Hello Artie!

 

Gelboliv is a dark olive green. There should't be any "drab" in it. Humbrol paints differ a lot between batches so maybe my recipe doesn't work with the paints available today. I painted my RF-104 some five years ago using paints that were still produced in India (the good ones).

 

If you have a tin of Hu 100 produced in India (very strong pigment) then all you need in addition is a bright green like Hu 3 and flat black. Be careful with the red (even one drop makes a difference) and compare with a RAL chart as you prepare the paint.

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

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Thank you very much for all the info, mates.....I'm overwhelmed right now..!!!! :lol::lol:

It's quite strange, for it al started as a "quick build for a friend", a friend who, by the way, doesn't care too much about accuracy, right colours, etc...just wants a Sabre in his cabinet, and liked the JG71 scheme, with those exicint Tulips around the nose and tail....Now, I'm getting involved into a much different project, I want to present him with an accurate representation of the real machine...he's a very good friend, almost a "brother", and he deserves all my efforts. So here goes a big THANK YOU, all your help is very useful...

Best regards from Tenerife....

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On 30/03/2018 at 10:00 PM, Creepy Pete said:

I quite liked the Xtracolor matches for the Luftwaffe colors. Here's what they look on my F-84F:

 

rviD7QH.jpg

They look pretty spot on to me.

 

Terry

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