British nuclear weapons - what colours?

[rickshaw]

Quick question, what colour and markings did British nuclear bombs carry?  I'm particularly interested in Red Beard.

[rayprit]

1 hour ago, rickshaw said:

Quick question, what colour and markings did British nuclear bombs carry?  I'm particularly interested in Red Beard.

Currently painted green at RAF Cosford Museum displayed alongside Vickers Valiant

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Red_Beard.jpg

 

Other colours are available..............check out these links:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=red+beard+nuclear+weapon&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi1gYCm-_zZAhVqK8AKHdOYDBcQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=910#imgrc=_

[Selwyn]

Originally as manufactured they were white, Then  all tactical bombs were repainted deep bronze green in the late 60's early 70's time frame. (same for WE 177) If you think that the delivery aircraft at the time  that carried them externally,  for example Navy  aircraft  had white undersides which  the bombs matched, and canberra carried them internally and had silver bottoms, but when  aircraft started to be toned down with camoflage  the bombs started to stand out  and compromise the camoflage so they were repainted.

 

Selwyn

[rickshaw]

OK, thanks.  So, what do the various coloured stripes represent?  Yellow for HE?  Orange for nuclear?

[Selwyn]

11 hours ago, rickshaw said:

OK, thanks.  So, what do the various coloured stripes represent?  Yellow for HE?  Orange for nuclear?

Right first time!

 

Selwyn

[junglierating]

Yep i only saw green ones ....most those we drill.....the longest functional ever.....very loooooong yawn...used to take up a morning watch 

[Murph]

While the subject is going, I have a Hasegawa Jaguar and a Freightdog resin WE 177 in the stash, I assume the weapon would be carried on the Jaguar's fuselage pylon, and on the middle station?

 

Regards,

Murph

Edited March 22, 2018 by Murph

[71chally]

I really wish there were more pictures out there of British service aircraft carrying tactical nukes, especially 1970s tactical RAF & Navy types, but they are very few and far between.

I've still never seen a a pic of an RAF Phantom (only American B43) carrying one, or a Jaguar.

 

This is a superb site (a bit hard to follow) for WE177 colours and info, hope that it gets updated to cover Red Beard and Yellow Sun etc as it is obviously well researched.

Some good pictures at the end.

http://www.nuclear-weapons.info/vw.htm

 

Don't forget nuke training rounds were in blue for a while, it seems the earlier types a lighter blue, with the later tactical type in the Oxford blue that we see on other types of training rounds before they went to a common colour to the live weapon (early 1980s?).

 

[junglierating]

You know i dont remember the training or drill round being blue....i know drill should oxford blue but i really dont recall that ...i could of course be wrong it was in the 80s 

[71chally]

Ah, should have said that was for the RAF!

I'm not sure when the training rounds went to the standard weapon colour, bet Selwyn does?

 

[Uncle Pete]

16 hours ago, Murph said:

WE 177

I was looking for a couple of those puppies for my 1/72 Tornado but crawled all over the internet with no luck.  Tried looking at Freightdog after seeing your comment but nothing there.  Don't know where to try now... Any suggestions?  (Don 't bust a gut over it... The Tornado has been sitting un-nuked for several months and doesn't seem to mind).

[Murph]

21 minutes ago, Uncle Pete said:

I was looking for a couple of those puppies for my 1/72 Tornado but crawled all over the internet with no luck.  Tried looking at Freightdog after seeing your comment but nothing there.  Don't know where to try now... Any suggestions?  (Don 't bust a gut over it... The Tornado has been sitting un-nuked for several months and doesn't seem to mind).

The WE 177 was part of their TSR.2 set, which doesn't seem to be in their catalog currently.  They are currently available as 3D printed items from Shapeways in both 1/72 and 1/48 scale though:  LINK  Finally, IIRC Belcher Bits may have offered one as part of a pack of British weapons, but I'm not sure on the availability of that.

 

Regards,

Murph

Edited March 23, 2018 by Murph

[Uncle Pete]

1 minute ago, Murph said:

The WE 177 was part of their TSR.2 set, which doesn't seem to be in their catalog currently.  They are currently available as 3D printed items from Shapeways in both 1/72 and 1/48 scale though:  LINK  Finally, IIRC Belcher Bits may have offered one as part of pack of British weapons, but I'm not sure on the availability of that.

 

Regards,

Murph

Thanks, mate, I'll C&P that for the future.  I owe you a pint.

[Troffa]

Belcher bits set- two WE177 included, but they are different variants so you might need two sets!

 

http://www.belcherbits.com/images/172conv/bl3inst.pdf

[71chally]

The Belcher bits set is good for all the British nukes,

http://www.belcherbits.com/lines/172conv/bl3.htm

 

1 hour ago, Uncle Pete said:

I was looking for a couple of those puppies for my 1/72 Tornado but crawled all over the internet with no luck.  

I might be wrong, but I think that in service the Tornado only carried one WE177, on the mid station of the port fuselage pylon.

 

 

I have to wholeheartedly agree with this from Belcher,

"Postscript In the US Atomic Museum in Albuquerque, a former RAF WE-177 is on display with a full description of the weapon. However, in the FAA Museum in Yeovilton, an unlabelled WE-177 sits forlornly on a weapons cart behind obsolete torpedoes and depth charges. Without a doubt, not one person in a thousand visiting that Museum is aware they are looking at a weapon which once had ten times the destructive power of the Hiroshima bomb."

[ejboyd5]

Perchance they even forgot to deactivate it.

[boffin]

Aviation Workshop did 1/72 WE177s (not sure which type offhand).  They might re-appear from Air Graphics

 

George

[Selwyn]

On 23/03/2018 at 2:57 PM, 71chally said:

Ah, should have said that was for the RAF!

I'm not sure when the training rounds went to the standard weapon colour, bet Selwyn does?

 

The Training rounds were originally white and then went to green at the same time as the operational bombs. The bombs that you see in museums are all training rounds. They are distinguished by not having any coloured hazard bands and the red triangle warning signs have white crosses stencilled over them. 

 

Selwyn

[71chally]

The training rounds were blue before being painted green, on the Cosford WE177s (and others the more I look) you can actually see the Oxford blue under the green showing around the stenciling areas.

Looking on the nukes website linked above they possibly went from the blue to green around 1978, would that make sense?

The Navy ones were always coloured like the operational weapon, white then green.

 

I know most preserved ones are training rounds as they lack the distinctive fluting aft of the nose unit, however the Old Sarum and Orfordness display articles are real bombs.

 

Here's a nice shot of a Yellow Sun in the earlier lighter blue training colours

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by 71chally

[Selwyn]

1 hour ago, 71chally said:

The training rounds were blue before being painted green, on the Cosford WE177s (and others the more I look) you can actually see the Oxford blue under the green showing around the stenciling areas.

Looking on the nukes website linked above they possibly went from the blue to green around 1978, would that make sense?

The Navy ones were always coloured like the operational weapon, white then green.

 

I know most preserved ones are training rounds as they lack the distinctive fluting aft of the nose unit, however the Old Sarum and Orfordness display articles are real bombs.

 

Here's a nice shot of a Yellow Sun in the earlier lighter blue training colours

 

 

 

 

 

The question was about WE 177 training rounds ,  and  yes YS 2 training rounds were blue, but WE 177 training rounds were green (Originally white) .  A  WE1177  TRAINING round was a bit of a strange one. There was never a  service light Blue WE177, The Cosford rounds you mention were actually  green rounds painted  with a Oxford Blue, strip  although they were marked TRAINING in white on them. Normally Oxford Blue DRILL rounds are for Groundcrew load training only and usually marked  DRILL  and NOT FOR FLIGHT.  TRAINING  rounds are usually for aircrew training IE weapon carriage/release, and have light blue markings, both  are very different items.   in fact  WE 177 training rounds  were a cross between both as they could if required, be flown. I don't think they ever were outside trials in UK, but were possibly sometimes  out at sea by the RN Linky  probably well out of  sight of  land and prying eyes. (It could of caused a bit of political fallout if one was seen flying  by someone!)   but these stores were strange as they were normally used on base by  Aircrew, for their on the ground training such as acceptance and arming drills, the store would also give the correct responses on the cockpit systems, and by Groundcrew  for load certification training. Hence the unusual Oxford blue  DRILL colour   marking  but with TRAINING stencils.

 

Selwyn