F-8 Crusader Configuration

[franky boy]

Hi everyone 

 

I’m planning on building an F-8 Crusader for an upcoming GB. My question as the title suggests is what would be a likely weapons configuration for operations over Vietnam.

 

I know they often carried missiles on fuselage racks. Would these be sidewinders? And what about underwing stores, bombs, rockets or fuel tanks?

 

Thanks

 

James

[Giorgio N]

The missiles on the fuselage were indeed Sidewinders, with 2 or 4 carried depending on the mission and the variant of the aircraft.

The same fuselage pylons could carry a somewhat unusual launcher for 2 Zuni rockets, there are several pictures of aircrafts based on carriers off Vietnam with 4 of these launchers. If building in 1/72, the Academy kit includes these.

Wing pylons were usually not even mounted on aircrafts used for CAPs. Aircrafts tasked with ground attack missions carried mostly Mk.82 bombs, pictures I've seen show one single bomb per pylon. The larger Mk.84 bomb could also be used but was a bit on the heavy side for carrier operations with the Crusader. Older bombs were also available and the Crusader could carry the M66 2,000 lbs bomb, that was also quite heavy and therefore better suited to land operations.

The loads I mention are for aircrafts operating from carriers, the USMC units based at Da Nang used to hang way heavier loads onto their Crusaders.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ive seen your entry in the group build. They could mount two or four zuni 2-packs in place of some or all sidewinders. Though since your build is dealing with Yankee station operations id go with the Aim-9’s and MER with Mk.82’s or the above mentioned Mk.83’s. I did the Hasegawa kit last fall and used two Mk.84’s and two Zuni 2-packs, but i modeled a USMC Crusader in 1966. 

[franky boy]

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

The missiles on the fuselage were indeed Sidewinders, with 2 or 4 carried depending on the mission and the variant of the aircraft.

The same fuselage pylons could carry a somewhat unusual launcher for 2 Zuni rockets, there are several pictures of aircrafts based on carriers off Vietnam with 4 of these launchers. If building in 1/72, the Academy kit includes these.

Wing pylons were usually not even mounted on aircrafts used for CAPs. Aircrafts tasked with ground attack missions carried mostly Mk.82 bombs, pictures I've seen show one single bomb per pylon. The larger Mk.84 bomb could also be used but was a bit on the heavy side for carrier operations with the Crusader. Older bombs were also available and the Crusader could carry the M66 2,000 lbs bomb, that was also quite heavy and therefore better suited to land operations.

The loads I mention are for aircrafts operating from carriers, the USMC units based at Da Nang used to hang way heavier loads onto their Crusaders.

 

52 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Ive seen your entry in the group build. They could mount two or four zuni 2-packs in place of some or all sidewinders. Though since your build is dealing with Yankee station operations id go with the Aim-9’s and MER with Mk.82’s or the above mentioned Mk.83’s. I did the Hasegawa kit last fall and used two Mk.84’s and two Zuni 2-packs, but i modeled a USMC Crusader in 1966. 

Thanks Guys

 

Both very informative answers as usual. Think I'll most likely go for a rocket and bomb combo.

 

James

[Murph]

For AIM-9s, the B, C (radar guided version), and D were carried in that timeframe.  I'm not sure that the C model was carried in theatre though, if so it was very short lived, and the B model was in the very early years of involvement.  By far, the AIM-9D was the most common type of Sidewinder used by the F-8 over Vietnam.  As mentioned, the Zuni rockets were carried, typically for flak suppression.  I'm not sure if bombs and the wing pylons were used in combat operations by the Navy; although, the aircraft was capable of it and Navy Crusader pilots did train to that capability.  The Marines, on the other hand, did use the pylons and bombs frequently.

 

Regards,

Murph

Edited March 21, 2018 by Murph

[Finn]

Navy F-8s did use the wing pylons, also here is a detailed report of VMF (AW) -214, a Marine squadron, when they deployed on the USS Oriskany:

 

https://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/reports/images.php?img=/images/1201/1201087025.pdf

 

the report lists initial build up to missions flown including weapon types and numbers expended.

 

Jari

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

48 minutes ago, Finn said:

detailed report of VMF (AW) -214, a Marine squadron

Bit of a typo there Finn. I think its supposed to be VMF-(aw) 212 “Lancers”. 😉

[Finn]

1 minute ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Bit of a typo there Finn. I think its supposed to be VMF-(aw) 212 “Lancers”. 😉

Yep in a hurry thanks will fix. Here is a F-8 being loaded:

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ordnance_men_apply_Mk_82_to_VF-194_F-8E_c1967.jpg

 

note it is MBR being loaded with bombs, the MBR was the early version of the MER.

 

Jari

Edited March 20, 2018 by Finn

[Finn]

Here is one with a mix of AIM-9 and Zuni on the Y rack:

 

 

Jari

[franky boy]

Cool picture Jari, thanks for sharing.

 

They look like very well used aircraft.

 

James

[busnproplinerfan]

 i have a few books on the F-8s and the E models did carry bombs. Forget if the Js did. Fuel tanks are very rare the book says. They were the 300 gallon type the S-3s and A-1s used. Only one picture i've seen is on the F-8J prototype. 

[Pat C]

I had read that VMF(AW)212 had used the M66 old-style 2000lb bombs but reading the document linked by Finn I struggled to find any references to it. 2000lbs are consistently referred to as Mk84 although on page 117 it just references mentions "Mk 2000lb" for the attack on the Kep Highway bridge which I wondered implied something other than a Mk84, but then the list of ordnance dropped in the month later on doesn't reference anything other than Mk84s in the 2000lb category. Grateful for any views as I have not seen a pic of this squadron with a Mk66 either.

Pat

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello @franky boy ... Here are a few photo’s of various loadouts on Crusaders. I found these when i was building my Crusader. I believe this was a photo taken during the Test phase for the “E” Type. I did mine like this but only used 2 of the positions on the “Y” rack. 

Next is a MER with bombs. 

A couple of VMF -(aw) 235 with various loadouts. 

A TER 

An M-66 i believe. 

I hope these can help you in some way. 

 

Dennis

 

🔺 = I state that ownership of these photo’s belongs to others. I just repost these for informational use only.  

[Finn]

Here is one from the 1965 cruise book:

 

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv34-65/249.htm

 

don't know which squadron.

 

Jari

[Pat C]

Thanks Jari - they look like Mk84s under the wings. I note no fuselage pylons so presumably F-8 acting purely as a bomber.

 

Pat

[Finn]

Here is another one:

 

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv34-66/099.htm

 

looks like a Mk-84.

 

Jari

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

16 minutes ago, Finn said:

Here is another one:

 

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv34-66/099.htm

 

looks like a Mk-84.

 

Jari

That Crusader is in VMA-(aw) 212 Lancers markings. They have a blue band with a cross inside of a shield on the blue stripe.

 

Dennis

 

🔺 = I state that ownership of these photo’s belongs to others. I just repost these for informational use only.  

 

[Booty003]

Great topic and very good for me too as I have 2 x Academy F-8's on the go at the minute.  Going to do a Navy CAP bird and Marine mud mover (bombs and Zunis).

 

Splendid kit and lovely aircraft.

 

Phil

[Tailspin Turtle]

This is what a Mk 84 looks like on the pylon: http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2013/03/a-brief-history-of-f8u-armament.html

[franky boy]

4 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hello @franky boy ... Here are a few photo’s of various loadouts on Crusaders. I found these when i was building my Crusader. I believe this was a photo taken during the Test phase for the “E” Type. I did mine like this but only used 2 of the positions on the “Y” rack. 

Next is a MER with bombs. 

A couple of VMF -(aw) 235 with various loadouts. 

A TER 

An M-66 i believe. 

I hope these can help you in some way. 

 

Dennis

 

🔺 = I state that ownership of these photo’s belongs to others. I just repost these for informational use only.  

Thanks Dennis

 

Theyre great pics and help a lot.

 

James

[Finn]

Here are a couple of Crusader flight manuals that have useful info in them:

 

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.ca/2017/03/vought-f-8de-crusader-flight-manual.html

 

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.ca/2017/04/vought-f-8hj-crusader-flight-manual.html

 

Jari

 

 

[Finn]

Here is one with Mk82 Snakeyes on a TER:

 

 

Jari

 

[Giorgio N]

On 21/3/2018 at 5:56 AM, Finn said:

Here is one with a mix of AIM-9 and Zuni on the Y rack:

 

 

Jari

 

This is a VF-111 F-8D aboard USS Midway. VF-111 did quite a lot of strafing using the Zuni pods and the same did VF-154, another unit equipped with Ds early in the war. The D could not carry bombs so rockets were their main AG weapon.

Even earlier, VF-51 and VF-53 (both on Es) used Zuni pods to support USS Maddox and against PT boat facilities.

 

15 hours ago, Finn said:

Here is one from the 1965 cruise book:

 

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv34-65/249.htm

 

don't know which squadron.

 

Jari

 

Could be VF-162, that shared the deck of Oriskany with VMF(AW)-212 during the 1965 cruise. VF-162 initially focused on CAP missions but later became more and more involved with ground attack.

 

15 hours ago, Pat C said:

Thanks Jari - they look like Mk84s under the wings. I note no fuselage pylons so presumably F-8 acting purely as a bomber.

 

Pat

 

IIRC when launching from a carrier with 2,000 lbs bombs, the fuselage pylons were generally removed to save weight. According to Osprey's title on the Crusader in Vietnam, the E variant also had to drop fuel to a dangerous level to be recovered with a full 4 Sidewinder load.

[junglierating]

What a great looking aircraft

 

[canberra kid]

I don't know if this helps?

John