vildebeest Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 On further thought, I think the third was WD980, not 988, which would be consistent. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, vildebeest said: David Going back to your original post, my Dad had a photo of three 617 Canberras in flight which he worked on. Two were WD982 and WD955 in MSG/Black and with red nose flash (and squadron crests). The third I had thought was WD988 but my recollection was that that was also in MSG/black which contradicts your statement that after 986 they went to the PRU blue scheme. I will have to try to find that photo next time I am at my Mum's. Paul Paul 1 - we need to see that photo, please!!!! 2 - 'and squadron crests' - a new factor in the markings dilemma. I hadn't seen those in the few pics I have access to. Where is it and how big? David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vildebeest Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 David When I made a 1/72 model of WD982 for my Dad (I reckon about thirty years ago now...) I used the 617 badge from the original Airfix Vulcan (where one option was an anti-flash white 617 version) and size-wise that on the model compared well with the photo. Bit of a roundabout way of saying it, but I hope it gives you an idea of size. I do not think all aircraft carried it, again my recollection from the photo is that two out of the three carried it. I will definitely try to find the photo next time I am at the house, but I have no idea where it is and it will take some digging around. They were, IIRC, on both sides of the nose just aft of the lightning strike. In case it is of any help, the criticism my Dad had of the model was that the emergency markings (the axe sign etc) were yellow when on the black fuselage, not, as I had done, red which was correct for other schemes. Paul 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) When the squadron crest was applied it was generally ahead of the crew door and inline with the door hinge line, so just under the rear of the lightning flash motif. Sizewise I would say standard type (not much good!) but similarish in depth to the flash widest part - hope that makes sense! Would love to see Pauls pictures as well! Edited March 21, 2018 by 71chally 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 More photos that prove nothing, but compering the blue and red on the fin flash with the shade of grey on the nose it looks more "blue" than "red" XA536 and WD987 at Binbrook 1953 WH643 and the sqn crest on the nose John 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 Thanks, John. I agree with your interpretation of the nose flashes on those photos. Do you know when they were taken in 1953? I believe (based on Bowyer's text) the flashes were initially red but blue flashes were put on 617 Canberras from some time in 1953. It seems that they were red earlier, at least in 1952, and were changed for some reason, perhaps because 9 Squadron laid claim to red as suggested by Graham but who knows. We also have Paul's father's memory of them being red in 1953. BTW - in the first photos, the furthest Canberra looks like it has a darker nose flash - perhaps red. It also looks like its not in camo to my eyes. Terrific photos and very helpful on the position of the nose badge. Where are you finding these? Thanks again. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 7 hours ago, David Womby said: Thanks, John. I agree with your interpretation of the nose flashes on those photos. Do you know when they were taken in 1953? I believe (based on Bowyer's text) the flashes were initially red but blue flashes were put on 617 Canberras from some time in 1953. It seems that they were red earlier, at least in 1952, and were changed for some reason, perhaps because 9 Squadron laid claim to red as suggested by Graham but who knows. We also have Paul's father's memory of them being red in 1953. BTW - in the first photos, the furthest Canberra looks like it has a darker nose flash - perhaps red. It also looks like its not in camo to my eyes. Terrific photos and very helpful on the position of the nose badge. Where are you finding these? Thanks again. David I agree David it does look like it may be in HSS with a red (?) flash, I'm sorry 1953 is as close as I can get for a date. All the photos are from my collection. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vildebeest Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I have found the photo I referred to. It is a bit small to make out much detail, especially on a scan, but it is still a nice picture. I am a bit busy to work out how to post photos at the moment, but I happy to send a scan to anybody who does know how to post, otherwise I will post it later. In terms of timing - and given that my Dad worked on three of these planes and was quite clear that those had red flashes - the writing on the back indicates it was taken on the Battle of Britain day flypast, 1953. Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, vildebeest said: I have found the photo I referred to. It is a bit small to make out much detail, especially on a scan, but it is still a nice picture. I am a bit busy to work out how to post photos at the moment, but I happy to send a scan to anybody who does know how to post, otherwise I will post it later. In terms of timing - and given that my Dad worked on three of these planes and was quite clear that those had red flashes - the writing on the back indicates it was taken on the Battle of Britain day flypast, 1953. Paul PM sent to help with posting this image. Cheers.. Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 On 21/03/2018 at 09:18, larumivi1951 said: Canberra B.2, WD997, 617 Squadron: That looks stunning, I think I'll build my 1/48 Airfix B2 in these colours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 14 hours ago, vildebeest said: I have found the photo I referred to. It is a bit small to make out much detail, especially on a scan, but it is still a nice picture. I am a bit busy to work out how to post photos at the moment, but I happy to send a scan to anybody who does know how to post, otherwise I will post it later. In terms of timing - and given that my Dad worked on three of these planes and was quite clear that those had red flashes - the writing on the back indicates it was taken on the Battle of Britain day flypast, 1953. Paul Great that you found it, Paul, and also that your Dad was able to pass on to you info. like dates and the colour of the emergency markings. I will send you a PM on the photo as we all look forward to seeing it. Thanks again. David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 On 23 March 2018 at 7:20 PM, canberra kid said: More photos that prove nothing, but compering the blue and red on the fin flash with the shade of grey on the nose it looks more "blue" than "red" XA536 and WD987 at Binbrook 1953 and the sqn crest on the nose John XV (15) Squadron John not 617 Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, sloegin57 said: XV (15) Squadron John not 617 Dennis I know Dennis, it was just to show typical position on the crest 😊 John 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vildebeest Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Thanks for your offers, I have sent a scan of the photo to Rabbit Leader to post. Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, vildebeest said: Thanks for your offers, I have sent a scan of the photo to Rabbit Leader to post. Paul Courtesy Paul (vildebeest). No. 617 Squadron Canberra B.2's, recorded as being photographed during the Battle of Britain day (15 Sep) flypast, 1953. Hopefully this is clear enough. Cheers.. Dave 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Thanks, Paul and Dave. So it looks to me like nearest to camera is WD980 with no squadron crest and the one to the port of the silver one is WD955 with a crest. I can't make out the serials of the silver one or the lowest grey/black one but this is a terrific pic and one I have never seen before. Brilliant!!!! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vildebeest Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Thanks for posting Dave. The back of the photo states "WD706 WD980 WD982 WD955 617 Sqd RAF Binbrook, Battle of Britain Flypast, 1953, SQD Ldr A Roberts DFC AFC Leading in 706" It did occur to me that WD706 does not sound right for a silver Canberra, is WH706 more likely? The original shows slight traces of the flash on the black paint, but I confirm there is no indication of a crest on 980, so that's the one to go for if you do not have a 617 crest to hand! 955, 980 and 982 were all being serviced by my father when the photo was taken and he confirmed they all had red flashes at the time - he died some years ago but we did have a specific conversation about this issue as he had seen a profile showing the flashes as blue and was most aggrieved. Paul 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vildebeest Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 A bit more on one of them, WD955 was one of the longest serving Canberras. It was converted to a T17 and served until the early 1990's - we saw it an airshow in the late 80's - and is now, according to google, preserved in Norway. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Excellent info., Paul. Thank you so much. I suspect you are right about the silver one as WD706 was a Meteor. Yes, I will be building WD980 as she is in your Dad's photo. No crest and no tip tanks. Thanks again. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vildebeest Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 No problem, always happy to spread the story about back and grey Canberras! I suspect the tip tanks were only removed for the flypast but at least if anybody ever questions it, you have photographic proof you were right. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 It's not too clear but it looks like they could all be in the early pre fuel vent mast mod. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 1 hour ago, vildebeest said: A bit more on one of them, WD955 was one of the longest serving Canberras. It was converted to a T17 and served until the early 1990's - we saw it an airshow in the late 80's - and is now, according to google, preserved in Norway. Paul Indeed, I remember in the early 1990s that WD955 was mentioned as being the longest serving front-line single airframe in the RAF, 43 years served when retired. WD706 was indeed a Meteor, WH706 was a Canberra but a T.4, and WJ706 was allocated to a Canberra but not built so I suspect the number is wrong? Lovely picture, thanks for sharing Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 WD706 was indeed a Meteor and a very nice one too! WH706 was a B.2 to start with and served with 617 Sqn before conversion to T.4 and a photo of WD955 the earliest one I can find in my shoe box at RAF Tangmere 1963 John 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 4 hours ago, canberra kid said: WH706 was a B.2 to start with and served with 617 Sqn before conversion to T.4 and a photo of WD955 the earliest one I can find in my shoe box at RAF Tangmere 1963 You're right John, same formation? https://www.na3t.org/air/photo/AG07377 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, 71chally said: You're right John, same formation? https://www.na3t.org/air/photo/AG07377 Could well be James, good find! John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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