stevehnz Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Came upon this photo purporting to be a MTB in Greenock harbour with Corvette HCMS Trillium behind it, except I also found the location identified as Halifax harbour, which makes the fast craft V-252 what? Obviously BPBC lineage but no searches have turned up references to anything with a V-252 number, either British, Canadian, mtb, asr, patrol, elco etc etc. Anyone got any info on it. Just curious, but a nice photo. Steve. Edited March 16, 2018 by stevehnz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 That looks like a whaleback ASR launch to me http://www.raf-lincolnshire.info/marinebranch/airsearescuephoto9.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Same to me Jamie but the number didn't look like an RAF one neither do the crew which made me wonder if it was US crewed. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just guessing, but V for Vosper and fresh from the factory? Which might explain the non-standard gear of the personnel on the deck, as the guy over side appears to be in RN gear. Either a build number of its eventual service number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewa Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Looks like an early 70ft Elco PT boat to me, around 10 of those made their way into RN service. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, andrewa said: Looks like an early 70ft Elco PT boat to me, around 10 of those made their way into RN service. I agree, MTB 258 - 268 ex Elco 70' formed the 10th flotilla in the Med. The pic shows a boat prior to RN service with the US Dewandre MG turret and US pattern 18" torpedo tubes. Steve yo were right about the BPCO heritage. The initial Elcos were designed by Scott-Paine HTH Kev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I wouldn't presume to contradict those who know these small craft far better than me, but the Elco wheelhouse looks different to me - most seeming to have a row of 3 similar shape windows behind the windscreen. The wheelhouse on Steve's link looked more like the 63ft HSL I thought? But my knowledge of these is pretty much non-existant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcastle Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hi all I would have to agree with @jaime here. The length to human ratio is in keeping with the 63' boat. But the arrangement of the two AA turrets is different to the usual UK variant - they were staggered over the ridge of the main compartment, while these seem to be side-to-side, more in keeping with the early Scott-Paine MGB, here without armament - there is no (usual) single Oerlikon on the rear and nor is there the larger gun on the front, or the wave deflector - maybe not yet fitted? As mentioned the wheelhouse is not correct for an Elco boat. My 2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I hauled out vol 2 of Lambert & Ross's Allied Coastal Craft, and I have to agree with the description of it as an ELCO. The long pilot house, the two Dewandre turrets, and the aft-mounted torpedo tubes look fairly convincing. The bridge has been enclosed, and there are not sign of the ventilator pipes aft, the turrets are covered, and the torpedo tubes are being fitted. These look to me as signs that the boat has been sealed up for delivery, possibly on the deck of a merchantman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hi Steve & everyone! The key clue here is; 4 hours ago, stevehnz said: Came upon this photo purporting to be a MTB in Greenock harbour with Corvette HCMS Trillium behind it, except I also found the location identified as Halifax harbour, which makes the fast craft V-252 what? Obviously BPBC lineage but no searches have turned up references to anything with a V-252 number, either British, Canadian, mtb, asr, patrol, elco etc etc. Anyone got any info on it. Just curious, but a nice photo. Steve. V252 was a motor torpedo boat built for the Royal Canadian Navy by the Canadian Power Boat Company. Here's some background info, as described in an article by Donald E. Graves entitled "HELL BOATS" OF THE RCN: THE CANADIAN NAVY AND THE MOTOR TORPEDO BOAT, 1936-1941. I came across this article during my RCN BPBC MTB build. The Canadian Power Boat Company was created by Hubert Scott-Paine as a subsidiary of the British Power Boat Co. in May 1940, located in Montreal, Quebec. V252 was one of 12 Canadian Motor Torpedo Boats (CMBT's) contracted to the Canadian Power Boat Co. She was "a seventy-foot craft powered by three 1350-horsepower Packard engines. It was to be equipped with ASDIC and armed with two eighteen-inch torpedoes in forward-firing tubes, four 50-calibre machine guns in twin-powered turrets and four depth charges. Specifications called for the boat to be capable of a continuous speed of thirty-five knots, an emergency speed of thirty-eight knots and a range of two thousand miles. With the exception of the substitution of Packard for Rolls Royce Merlin engines, the reduction in the number of torpedoes and the addition of depth charges and ASDIC , the CMBT was substantially Scott-Paine's 70-foot Private Venture boat. The addition of these two items demonstrate that the RCN's intention was to use the CMBT not so much as a fast attack craft but as a patrol craft - basically a fast motor launch. Canadian Power Boat was to commence delivery of the first Canadian-built craft thirty-nine weeks and the last fifty-nine weeks after signing at a price of $139,449 per craft.42 John 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Nice one John! Coming from a different angle PV70 was the original boat built by Scott-Paine to try and get contracts. It was noted that compared to the subsequent boats PV70's 'the sides and top of the trunk cabin met in a rather unattractive sharp angle' Was accepted by US after trials and became PT9 , the origin of the 70' Elco with mods. When the 70' boats were handed over to the RN PT9 was allocated to the RCN in March '41. Stripped of her tubes and engines she was towed to Montreal, where she was fitted out by the newly formed Canadian Power Boat Company and became V-250. From the look of the rest of the Canadian boats they followed closely on Scott-Paine's PV70 Kev PS All my info is from John Lamberts Vol II PPS Now you know Steve 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWS Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, longshanks said: Nice one John! ... ... PS All my info is from John Lamberts Vol II ... Thanks Kev. I wonder where we would be without J. Lambert's reference books? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Brilliant, thanks John & Kev, my miniscule FPB knowledge has just been given a sizeable boost. As an aside, I'm reading "The Battle of the Narrow Seas" again, first read about 50 years ago, & apart from bits & pieces read in the interim, the last time I read it cover to cover was probably 20+ years ago. I'm amazed at how much more I can appreciate it from following builds on here & ARC but also how much more there is to know, which is where this thread began as I was googling for detail in C-class MLs & that photo popped up. Steve. Edited March 16, 2018 by stevehnz Capital B, old chap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyPG Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 3/16/2018 at 9:45 AM, stevehnz said: Came upon this photo purporting to be a MTB in Greenock harbour with Corvette HCMS Trillium behind it, except I also found the location identified as Halifax harbour, which makes the fast craft V-252 what? Obviously BPBC lineage but no searches have turned up references to anything with a V-252 number, either British, Canadian, mtb, asr, patrol, elco etc etc. Anyone got any info on it. Just curious, but a nice photo. Steve. Love that picture. It's got everything. Inspires me to do a dockscape? Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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