F-105D Thunderchief 58-1155 (D-10) 1/72 - last build update 11/07/18

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks chaps. If I print on to a silver decal I would then have a monumental cutting task. :(.  As billn53 suggests, I'll run a test at some point.

 

thanks also for the tick in the box for the NACA inlet. Now the KK has dried it looks very good.

 

Martin

Edited March 24, 2018 by RidgeRunner

[RidgeRunner]

Chaps, I may have not been clear what I meant about the lettering. Clearly in the image at the start of this thread you can see that the serial, US AIR FORCE, buzz number etc have a very thin border, created by allowing the metal background to show. In 1/72 it would be a minuscule width, maybe .5 MM. or less. My thinking was that such a thin border in a grey that matches the aluminium tone could work if I redraw them and print at home. Once applied and glossed with a varnish coat it might, just might, be good enough as a replication of the metallic borders. For the star and bar, also bordered, I will set the kit decals on a previously masked area like I did with my F-86H.

 

maybe I've still muddied everything?

 

Martin

[Giorgio N]

What printer are you using ? And on what paper ?
If you print on clear paper you'll never get the light grey to cover well enough and it will disappear over any background. If you print on white paper then of course you can do it, but you'll still need to do a lot of cutting to have a thin edge. At that point I'd rather follow a different approach, that is cutting the letters from silver coloured decal film. If you have a laser printer, you can print the outline of these letters in black and then it's cutting time. Very long and boring and with all the problems usually associated in cutting all letters consistently.

Another approach is of course to cut masks for the letters, then paint the dayglo areas with the masks in place. In both the decals would be best applied as individual digits and letters to guarantee a perfect alignment within the silver/aluminum areas

[RidgeRunner]

A good point, Giorgio. I'd forgotten to consider the need for clear decal film. It is all sounding too much like hard work now :(.... I may have to re-think this and go for another machine, sadly. I'm happy cutting masks for the stars and bats etc but not around each letter and number.... Damn!

 

oh, I didn't answer.... Clear paper on an ink-jet.

 

Martin

Edited March 25, 2018 by RidgeRunner

[RidgeRunner]

Another thought .....

 

I sample  the colour of the background, the pale yellow.  There are no letters or numbers on the international red areas. Then I draw out the black letters and numbers with Amarillo font and add a thin grey outline and place these within a background of the base colour (the pale yellow). Once printed - on white decal sheet - I cut around each with a little of the yellow included and blend that in to the background. Would/could that work?

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

3 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

There are no letters or numbers on the international red areas.

 

Oops, I am wrong. The wings -undersides at least - are on the red areas...... Damn again!

 

Martin

Edited March 25, 2018 by RidgeRunner

[RidgeRunner]

Another idea:

 

1. I draw and print the Amarillio letters and numbers in black on clear sheet

2. I take the same images and re-size them slightly larger, say 102%, of the original and print them on clear sheet in grey that mimics the flat aluminium.

3. Apply the grey and the black over the top? 

 

[billn53]

I like that plan. 

[RidgeRunner]

5 hours ago, billn53 said:

I like that plan. 

 

Which one, Bill?

[Giorgio N]

Martin, I would first of all do some tests. For example:

- print an area of light grey on decal paper, test how this looks when applied onto some yellow and red painted plastic. I believe that it will not look good, but you never know

- print an area of yellow and an area of red on decal paper, test how these look when applied onto NM/Aluminum painted plastic. The yellow may be too translucent but the red may be better.

- print a letter in black with a light grey edge over white decal paper, trim and see what the result is like.

 

I suggests these tests to see the potential results of 3 different approaches. The first test is to verify if your ideas may work.

The second test is to check one other approach: instead of masking accurately shaped aluminum letters, just leave rectangles with roughly the same size, so that you have your yellow and red areas with rectangular aluminum areas. You can then print the black letters/numbers together with the clear edge and the rest of the yellow or black flling on clear decal and apply these onto the areas left in aluminum. You can even stretch this approach to leaving the whole areas where the codes are in aluminum.

 

The third test is to use another couple of different approaches: one is to use white letters and numbers, Fantasy Printshop has a range of USAF style letters/numbers in white in various sizes. The idea is to apply the white codes, then print black letters with grey edges on clear decal paper and aply on top of the white letters. As you now have a white background, the light grey will look light grey. The downside of this approach is that your black letters will be slightly smaller than they should be as they have to fit onto the while letters together with the edging

Of course another approach is to mask the areas where the codes go and paint these in white and then print the codes in black with light grey edging and yellow or red filling.

 

There are even more options... one very good one would be to find silver letters and numbers and apply black printed decals onto them, but I don't know if any decal manufacturer ever made them. Superscale had some light grey ones

One approach that is feasible for larger numbers and letters (like the buzz codes or the wing USAF markings) is to use very fine strips of silver decal and apply these beside the black letters. You can alternatively make your own strips if you have a fine point permanent marker. It's a boring process but can give decent results.

 

 

[billn53]

4 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

 

Which one, Bill?

The one in post #87

[RidgeRunner]

12 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

Martin, I would first of all do some tests. For example:

- print an area of light grey on decal paper, test how this looks when applied onto some yellow and red painted plastic. I believe that it will not look good, but you never know

- print an area of yellow and an area of red on decal paper, test how these look when applied onto NM/Aluminum painted plastic. The yellow may be too translucent but the red may be better.

- print a letter in black with a light grey edge over white decal paper, trim and see what the result is like.

 

I suggests these tests to see the potential results of 3 different approaches. The first test is to verify if your ideas may work.

The second test is to check one other approach: instead of masking accurately shaped aluminum letters, just leave rectangles with roughly the same size, so that you have your yellow and red areas with rectangular aluminum areas. You can then print the black letters/numbers together with the clear edge and the rest of the yellow or black flling on clear decal and apply these onto the areas left in aluminum. You can even stretch this approach to leaving the whole areas where the codes are in aluminum.

 

The third test is to use another couple of different approaches: one is to use white letters and numbers, Fantasy Printshop has a range of USAF style letters/numbers in white in various sizes. The idea is to apply the white codes, then print black letters with grey edges on clear decal paper and aply on top of the white letters. As you now have a white background, the light grey will look light grey. The downside of this approach is that your black letters will be slightly smaller than they should be as they have to fit onto the while letters together with the edging

Of course another approach is to mask the areas where the codes go and paint these in white and then print the codes in black with light grey edging and yellow or red filling.

 

There are even more options... one very good one would be to find silver letters and numbers and apply black printed decals onto them, but I don't know if any decal manufacturer ever made them. Superscale had some light grey ones

One approach that is feasible for larger numbers and letters (like the buzz codes or the wing USAF markings) is to use very fine strips of silver decal and apply these beside the black letters. You can alternatively make your own strips if you have a fine point permanent marker. It's a boring process but can give decent results.

 

 

 

There's lot to absorb there. Giorgio! Thank you, as always. I think I have a lot of testing ahead of me! Much appreciated. 

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

again, thanks Giorgio for your comprehensive post. I will certain get on to that. Meanwhile, and after a short interlude while I attend to a family matter, I need to get on with the actual build and at least get the fuselage halves mated and the wings started. From a markings perspective I also need to draw out the masks for the red flashing. Again I appreciate your offer of help with that, Giorgio. 

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

sorry chaps, another question: should the lettering and numerals be Black or Insignia Blue? I ask because I got a Microscale set that has both. When was blue used?

 

Thanks, Martin

[RidgeRunner]

having looked back at the colour image of this machine they look to be black.

[Wez]

12 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

sorry chaps, another question: should the lettering and numerals be Black or Insignia Blue? I ask because I got a Microscale set that has both. When was blue used?

 

Thanks, Martin

 

2 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

having looked back at the colour image of this machine they look to be black.

 

Tricky one to tell from B&W photos.

 

There was a point post-war when the USAF titles were in insignia blue but this changed to black but I think the F-105 was one of those it was always black on.  Not very helpful I know but if you're looking to build a consensus, then my vote is for black.

[Giorgio N]

The rules were: USAF and U.S. AIR FORCE titles and FH-xxx identification letters and number in insignia blue.

Serial numbers in black

There were exceptions of course, however when in doubt I would follow the rules.

This is the diagram for the Thud from the 1964 version of TO-1-1-4

 

[Wez]

Thanks Giorgio!

 

Well that's pretty conclusive then.

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks a million, Giorgio. Excellent input, as always. 

 

I have the fuselage together now. No drama so I won't post images. My list of To Do's for the immediate future are:

 

    Cut out and clean up the dorsal wiring duct area

 

    Fashion and fit a new ventral fin, without arrester gear

 

    Fit various outstanding panels on the fuselage - gun cover, etc.

 

    Drill out the nose cone to take the thicker pitot

 

    Clean up (including a repair to a broken HUD!) and paint forward cockpit area and then Matt varnish that and the jet pipe area

 

    Apply  frisked and draw out out the forward fuselage flashes prior to starting on, and fitting, the wings

 

Meanwhile I will start testing some options for the lettering and numbering (see earlier). That'll keep me busy

 

 

Martin

Edited March 31, 2018 by RidgeRunner
Added text - To Do's!

[RidgeRunner]

Hi all,

 

I finally managed to get out the tools and do a little work on the Thud :). Today I set about the following:

 

1. Modifying the spine to reflect the earlier configuration, without the nav light and wiring ducting.

2. Draw out, cut and fit the new ventral fin, without the arrestor gear. Made with Plasticard.

3. Fit and fill around the gun bay and AAR housing

4. Fill the rivets in the wings

5. File down the strengthening plates under the wings

6. Fill the nose gun as this test machine didn't have it

7. Install the splitter plates in the intake area

8. Build the wings, which I may leave off for now as they fit well and that will mean that I draw out the masks and can then paint easier

 

Images:

 

Spine

 

 

 

Ventral Fin

 

 

Gun bay etc

 

 

Rivets

 

Strengthening plates

 

As she is today. Wings dry fitted. Next will be filling and sanding, nose cone/probe, and priming.

 

 

Martin

Edited April 8, 2018 by RidgeRunner

[Terry1954]

Have been watching from the wings and it looks like this is coming on grandly Martin. 

 

Cheers

 

Terry

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks Terry. I feel better now that I've been able to get some significant work done on her. :). I need to survey the filled rivets because there are still some I've missed but at least I've broken the back of it now :).

 

I appreciate your interest.

 

Martin

 

 

[billn53]

Impressive work! I especially like what you’ve done with the new ventral fin. 

You’re making me look like a slowpoke with my current Mosquito build. Haha!

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks Bill. Hopefully I'll back to her again in the next few days, although I am away for a few days midweek so I may not

 

Martin

[billn53]

Similar situation here. I'm flying to Boston Monday, back home Thursday. Been trying to get some modeling time in this weekend but not having a lot of luck