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Wreckage of USS Lexington Located in Coral Sea including aircraft


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True except in the link, Vorse is linked to white 2-F-5 on Lexington. The photo is of 2-F-5. Presumably there's a picture in the original book. Does anyone have a copy?

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7 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Paul Allen clarified on his Facebook page when someone asked the depth. He said it was 3000m / 2 miles deep.

 

The preservation of these aeroplanes is stunning.

Thanks Jamie, I watched the video later on and saw that the overlay was, in fact, in Metres. the depth goes a long way to explaining the preservation of the aircraft, cold water with low free oxygen content.

 

Duncan B

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I've just read that they they found (so far) 1 Wildcat, 3 Dauntless, and 7 (seven!) Devastators. Wow! The carrier itself is in three major pieces.

 

Another shot of two Devastators:

 

DXleQEQVMAA0cKE

 

Cheers,

Bill

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A close-up of the kill markings on the Wildcat:

 

DXmbLY2X0AAZqw3

 

No doubt about the identification:

 

DXmRmcpX0AElFNZ

 

So far, they've found 11 aircraft. She went down with 35, so I guess we have to stay tuned.

 

Cheers,

Bill

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2 miles down will explain the relatively clean appearance of the aircraft, but it will also preclude any chances of raising some to the surface I guess?  As the majority of the crew got off safely (still a lot killed) will it be marked as a war grave or not?

 

It's an amazing find :worthy:

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Hello, noelh

There is a photo of a Wildcat with her codes partially obscured, which could be either F-5 or F-9. I am inclining towards the latter designation. However, this could not be the aircraft on the photo from USS Lexington deck, as her multiple cowl flaps indicate F4F-3 and the photo in the book shows F4F-3A. Apart from that, both national insignia and code letters of the plane from the photo in the book are positioned much further towards the plane's tail. Also, codes on colour profiles in the book all start with carrier identification number 2 which, judging by the wreck photos, had been removed by the time of the carrier engagement. Cheers

Jure

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31 minutes ago, Mike said:

2 miles down will explain the relatively clean appearance of the aircraft, but it will also preclude any chances of raising some to the surface I guess?  As the majority of the crew got off safely (still a lot killed) will it be marked as a war grave or not?

 

It's an amazing find :worthy:

My understanding is that it is already designated as a war grave. About 200 men went down with her out of 2,000. I am intrigued about the aircraft, were they in a hanger or lashed on deck? They are in amazing condition. 

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4 minutes ago, Mr T said:

About 200 men went down with her out of 2,000.

216 and 2,700 rescued IIRC from Wiki a few minutes ago.  I hope they got them off, but it's totally understandable if not.  I doubt it would be practical to retrieve an airframe from 2 miles under anyway...

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Aside from the technical challenges, there are a couple of other problems with trying to recover any of these aircraft.  The first is purely political.  The USN takes "ownership" very literally and has often refused efforts to recover USN airframes, even when it's proven that no personnel died in the wreck.  The second problem is ethical.  The Lexington has been declared a War Grave but the ship is in 3 pieces with debris spread over a sizeable area.  I think it's splitting hairs to treat the aircraft as anything other than part of the war grave site. 

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The US Navy lists it as a war grave and it's recognised internationally as such. But that will not deter the metal salvagers now its location is known. They have raided war grave ships in the recent past and have even attempted taking from Titanic which is 2.4 miles down

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/16/british-second-world-war-ships-illegal-scavenging-java-sea

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24 minutes ago, Mr T said:

My understanding is that it is already designated as a war grave. About 200 men went down with her out of 2,000. I am intrigued about the aircraft, were they in a hanger or lashed on deck? They are in amazing condition. 

From what I've read today and seen in photo  the Wildcats were parked forward and others aft. So they just fell off. Many of them landed after the fatal hit on the carrier.

As for it being a war grave. Well the ship is but the planes were scattered, so.........?

 

Anyway even if it wasn't a war grave it's still claimed by the USN so nothing happens without their permission. There have been issues before with recovering USN aircraft from sea or lakes. If they say no. It's no.

Edit: Ah Mr Haselden beat me to it.

Edited by noelh
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What annoyed me is that all the news sites copied each other and wobbled on about army air corp markings.....glad to see its not the FAA ignored....USN as well.....RAF Yeovilton and army helicopters indeed.

Still fab pics though...just hope its deep enough for gizxit hunters not to prey.

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23 hours ago, mhaselden said:

Looking at the close-up of the Wildcat, portions of the pilot's name are visible under the cockpit rim.  First letter looks like a 'W" and the last is probably an "R".  Perhaps Warner? 

Saw that. There was also a Gayler. But also Albert O Vorse Jr.  It could equally be the name of the Plane Captain. Whoever it was had four kills. I'm sure the truth will out when the experts set to work.

Edited by noelh
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41 minutes ago, noelh said:

Whoever it was had four kills.

Yes i see the four kills but just to the right is a fifth marking. Its a Red bomb over a Japanese sunburst no white field, and the bomb is touching what looks like a submarine/destroyer ? Did that indicate the pilot helped destroy a ship/submarine. 9GNsEXl.jpg

 

Curious to see what the collective members think abou it. 

 

Dennis

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2 hours ago, Mike said:

2 miles down will explain the relatively clean appearance of the aircraft, but it will also preclude any chances of raising some to the surface I guess?  As the majority of the crew got off safely (still a lot killed) will it be marked as a war grave or not?

 

It's an amazing find :worthy:

I read somewhere else that the Lexington is already classed as a War Grave but the aircraft are not as they contained no crew when they sank. I'm not sure how that works without an accurate position unless the classification is applied to a vessel wherever it is lying and doesn't require a known position.

When I was working on the wreck of the Blucher in Norway the vessel itself was a war grave (so we had to have the appropriate licences to work on it) but the equipment and the Arado lying on the bottom were not included and I believe the Arado was recovered the following year during the next campaign.

Recovering those aircraft to the surface is perfectly feasible if the job is engineered correctly. A subsea lift into some sort of cradle or basket would be the easiest way to go about it however the structural condition of the airframes might not be as sound as they look after all those years.

 

Duncan B

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Having did a bit more research and reading other forums suggestions. I now think the most likely pilot for that aircraft is not Vorse but Lt Noel Gayler. The number of kills match as does the bomb mark because he took part in the raid on Salamaua-Lae where he shot down a floatplane after dropping bombs and also strafing a ship. He was definitely on the Lexington and had to abandon the ship, twice actually. He jumped off the carrier into the sea but climbed back again to rejoin the other pilots onboard much to their amusement.

It does seem to fit. The three visible letters seem to be a G an A and an R. I think a photo will emerge at some point. After all why bother to paint it up and not take a picture?

 

What I find more interesting is the possibility of finding Thach's or O'Hare's specially marked aircraft as they were on board too. 

 

 

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Hello

I am not sure about those flags, noelh. According to Osprey book Gayler earlier claimed three victories with Fighting 3. During the Coral Sea battle, he claimed one Zeke probably destroyed on 7th May and two Vals destroyed while defending USS Lexington a day later. According to his own account, Gayler noticed nothing unusual while circling to land, and became aware something was amiss only when he was completely ignored after landing. Then he noticed flecks of fire-fighting foam and shell-shocked faces of deck crew members. He tried to organise another strike against Zuikaku, but some two and a half hours later explosions below deck caused fires to become uncontrollable. It is not very likely one would bother with victory markings under such circumstances. Cheers

Jure

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Yes but he also shot down the floatplane during the raid on Salamaua-Lae much earlier. That makes four. But yes you are completely right it's hard to make it fit. Nevertheless there it is, a Wildcat with four kill markings and a name ending in R. Exactly who the pilot is remains to be seen but I'm confident it will be revealed by someone with access to the records. 

 

I find it all fascinating and frankly poignant. I mean it's a moment in time preserved almost forever. It's like time stood still. 

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I just saw this thread...have been in a bit of a bubble and heard very little news over the last few days, so this was a hell of a surprise...I was working in that area recently, not too far from where Shōhō went down. I wondered about the Lexington and how deep she might be, figured she might interest Paul Allan's crew but had no idea they were already planning to find her. The photos are amazing, the aircraft are in much better condition than I would have predicted for those waters, hopefully they will bring a few up.

 

The owner of a private atoll that entertains cruise ships passing through the Coral Sea told me he was seriously considering purchasing a WWII warbird to offer passengers scenic flights around the battle area (there's an airstrip on one of his islands), he was considering buying a Grumman Avenger that was for sale in Aussie...I think this was rather ambitious on his part and unlikely to happen for various reasons, let alone the costs involved. The atolls are beautiful but otherwise there's only a lot of blue to see anyway, not much fun in a single-engine piston either.

Edited by Launchpad
typo
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