HELP! Matte Cllear Coat Dried WHITE!

[Speedbird 48]

A little Googling suggests humidity is to blame. I am not too happy about this:

 

 

The model would have been gorgeous otherwise. Do you guys have suggestions as how to salvage this model? I was thinking about just applying a black wash until you can no longer notice the white. The other option was to repaint the affected area, but that has the potential to do more harm then good. This is the second time I have been bit in the back by applying a gloss coat before decals. Honestly at this point I think whatever "harm" it does to decals isn't worth the overall harm it does to the model. (The right roundel was placed on a flat surface) Are there alternatives to that? I should add that the whole model including the clear coat was brush painted, would spray have been less likely to do this?

Edited February 25, 2018 by Speedbird 48

[Nachtwulf]

Try putting water on it. If it clears up with water then you can put future or some other gloss on  it and then when that dries you can flat coat it again.

[Rabbit Leader]

OK Speedbird, let’s work through this one. The first thing you should do is simply reapply your gloss coat. I would probably test this out on a small effected area first. If you use a brush, just go over a small effected area and wait until it dries. If the full gloss and underlying colour comes back, then your on the right track. Go over the whole model again with the gloss coat and then reapply your Matt/satin finish when the conditions are right.

 

I’d be interested to know what Matt coat your using as this may also be the culprit. Humidity can have an effect, however it would appear that your final varnish has too much matting agent in it to end up like that. I reckon it’s fixable, so don’t panic just yet! 

 

Cheers & Good luck.. Dave

[Speedbird 48]

Thanks guys. I went the route of repainting the small affected areas, but it didn't do a totally perfect job and I would like to know what to do if I am unfortunate enough to have this happen again.

 

52 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

OK Speedbird, let’s work through this one. The first thing you should do is simply reapply your gloss coat. I would probably test this out on a small effected area first. If you use a brush, just go over a small effected area and wait until it dries. If the full gloss and underlying colour comes back, then your on the right track. Go over the whole model again with the gloss coat and then reapply your Matt/satin finish when the conditions are right.

 

I’d be interested to know what Matt coat your using as this may also be the culprit. Humidity can have an effect, however it would appear that your final varnish has too much matting agent in it to end up like that. I reckon it’s fixable, so don’t panic just yet! 

 

Cheers & Good luck.. Dave

There is a small area on my model where I could try that. I am using Tamiyas flat coat and Testors Gloss coat. The Testors flat coat was way too glossy for me, and it almost ruined a model.

1 hour ago, Nachtwulf said:

Try putting water on it. If it clears up with water then you can put future or some other gloss on  it and then when that dries you can flat coat it again.

Couldn't that cause issues if the surface had a dried decal on it?

[Rabbit Leader]

In all my experiences, a gloss coat should never ruin a model, it’ll just make it glossier. Applying water should also have no effect on the decals unless the decals have not been applied correctly. If thats the case the decal should just slide to one side until it dries again probably in the wrong spot. 

 

I assume you are using acrylic products? Seeing you live in the US, go and visit your nearest Wallmart and invest in a bottle or two of Pledge Floor Care (clear flloor polish). This is a very shiny and tough gloss coat that will do more than one job for you. First and foremost it will protect your paint. It then gives you a smooth finish to apply your decals on. Once the decals are dry, reapply another coat of Pledge to seal in the decals. This is the stage where you can apply washes etc, however I’d hold off on all that until you’ve mastered what a nice clean final finish should look like. 

 

Tamiya sells a Flat Base product called X-21. This is not a flat coat, rather an flattening agent to take the shine away (dull) other gloss products. Make up a solution of Pledge and a few drops of X-21 until you get a dull looking liquid that you can brush with and apply with a wide flat brush to your model. Applying too much X-21 will result in the Matt whitening effect that you’ve got on your little Hurricane. Applying the Pledge without the X-21 will restore the colours (and shine) back again. This Pledge / X-21 mix is never easy to work out, however either add more polish or more flat agent until you get the final sheen your after. 

 

I’ll admit, I use an Airbrush, however there are many hand brushes on here that achieve fantastic results with the ‘hairy stick’. 

 

There are also many useful tutorial modelling videos on YouTube. Spend a rainy day watching as many as you can and don’t give up!! It’s a great hobby but you will always have horrid days no matter how many years you’ve been playing this silly game.

 

I hope this helps.. and apologies if some of the stuff I’ve mentioned sounds a little basic. It’s hard knowing how experienced or knowledgeable you are whilst typing these words half way around the world!! 

 

Cheers.. Dave

[speedy]

Now I used to get this years ago in an era that was pre-airbrush. My diagnosis was that it was too much (Volume) in one area, again as yours brush painting. Re-glossing fixed it and then conscious application of Matt. I like the suggestion of humidity though, also I always warm my paints never out of the pot. I use the airing cupboard or put it on the radiator at this time of year.

 

keep us posted.

 

steve.

[woody37]

I have had this happen. If you have any Johnston’s Kleer, brushing that over normally fixes it

 

[224 Peter]

I had this with my 1/32 Revell Typhoon. 

 

 

Humbrol enamel, then Kleer, apply decals, then a second coat of clear, then a week later brush applied Humbrol matte coat (acrylic)

I tried all sorts of things, but not another coat of Kleer!

Ended up doing a full repaint - not a happy camper at all. 

 

The room is/was warm and dry. 

 

I suspect that Humbrol Matte Coat MUST be sprayed, it is very thin. 

Any other thoughts?

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by 224 Peter
add Photo..

[mike romeo]

Would love an answer to this as I've had the same trouble brushing Tamiya X-21 neat.

[bhouse]

Tamiya X-21 is a flatting agent - it's designed to be added to a gloss paint to make it matt. I've used it successfully by adding 1 part X-21 to 3 parts gloss coat. One of the advantages of using this matting agent is that you can result control how matt or gloss the final surface is by adding more or less X-21 to the mix.

[mike romeo]

So, if I wanted a brush-friendly matt varnish coat, I'd . . . ?

[Troy Smith]

 

14 minutes ago, mike romeo said:

So, if I wanted a brush-friendly matt varnish coat, I'd . . . ?

Windsor and Newton Galleria is  noted as being good.   

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/46166-winsor-newton-galeria-matt-varnish/

 

There have been threads on matt varnish and similar problems here before,   try adding britmodeller into a google search term

"britmodeller matt varnish problems"

https://www.google.com/search?ei=2OKSWr-PKayKgAbAtL2wAw&q=britmodller+matt+varnish+problems&oq=britmodller+matt+varnish+problems&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1554.4921.0.5305.9.9.0.0.0.0.344.1226.0j7j0j1.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.4.496...33i21k1j33i160k1.0.Fb63_iBSDx4

 

various threads on problems with frosting etc.

 

HTH

[bhouse]

1 hour ago, mike romeo said:

So, if I wanted a brush-friendly matt varnish coat, I'd . . . ?

Add some X-21 to Tamiya X-22. The 21 may well matt other manufacturers' gloss coats but I always stick to one range/manufacturer when blending paints.

For a simpler solution, Troy's suggestion of Winsor and Newton matte varnish is very sound.

Good luck!

 

p,s, if you need to search for it online, it's Winsor not Windsor!

[speedy]

49 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

 

Windsor and Newton Galleria is  noted as being good.   

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/46166-winsor-newton-galeria-matt-varnish/

 

There have been threads on matt varnish and similar problems here before,   try adding britmodeller into a google search term

"britmodeller matt varnish problems"

https://www.google.com/search?ei=2OKSWr-PKayKgAbAtL2wAw&q=britmodller+matt+varnish+problems&oq=britmodller+matt+varnish+problems&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1554.4921.0.5305.9.9.0.0.0.0.344.1226.0j7j0j1.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.4.496...33i21k1j33i160k1.0.Fb63_iBSDx4

 

various threads on problems with frosting etc.

 

HTH

W&N all day long.

[rod mcq]

1 hour ago, bhouse said:

Add some X-21 to Tamiya X-22. The 21 may well matt other manufacturers' gloss coats but I always stick to one range/manufacturer when blending paints.

For a simpler solution, Troy's suggestion of Winsor and Newton matte varnish is very sound.

Good luck!

 

p,s, if you need to search for it online, it's Winsor not Windsor!

 

There's also Tamiy's own flat/matt varnish  - XF-86

xf-68

[Graham Boak]

Searching the Winsor and Newton site, I was offered the Professional matt varnish and the General Purpose matt varnish, which come in cans.  Looking under Galeria (note spelling) i found an acrylic matt varnish which comes in bottles.  So which is the recommended one, or is it all three?

[JWM]

I had similar problem already twice with Vallejo matt varnish (acrylic) and I uses Micro Sol (the decal solution by Microscale - that one bottle with red inscriptions). My logic to use it was that since apparently it dissolved old laquer on decal making it softer it can dissolve varnish. And IT WORKED! In one case it worked several months after problem happend - so on completly dry varnish. I soaked the surface with brush and did brushing rather not gently pressing. Be careful with decals of course!

Regards

J-W

 

[Rick Brown]

8 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Searching the Winsor and Newton site, I was offered the Professional matt varnish and the General Purpose matt varnish, which come in cans.  Looking under Galeria (note spelling) i found an acrylic matt varnish which comes in bottles.  So which is the recommended one, or is it all three?

Galeria every time for a truly matt finish.

I use an airbrush, so not sure how it goes down with a hairy stick though.

It's ok over all the acrylics I tend to use Tamiya, Vallejo etc.

HTH,

Rick.

 

[Smithy]

12 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Searching the Winsor and Newton site, I was offered the Professional matt varnish and the General Purpose matt varnish, which come in cans.  Looking under Galeria (note spelling) i found an acrylic matt varnish which comes in bottles.  So which is the recommended one, or is it all three?

 

Graham I can only speak for myself as I'm a brush painter but use the W&N Professional Matt Varnish spray as a final coat to seal in chalk pastel and graphite weathering and have been exceedingly pleased with it. I warm the can in some warm water for several minutes and then shake it for about one to two minutes and then spray on from about a foot distance from the model. Works beautifully for me.

 

My complete process is: after decalling I seal with Klear/Pledge, do a panel line and sludge wash, then brush varnish with Humbrol 49, do chalk pastel and graphite weathering and then seal with W&N Professional.

 

Obviously very different if you're an airbrush user but the above gives me excellent results as a brush painter and I'd recommend W&N if you're a brush painter and want a final spray coat to seal any "powder" weathering. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Smithy

[Kallisti]

I had this problem several times using Tamiya matt and semi gloss varnishes and also with Vallejo matt so I gave up on all of them and when I couldn't get the Windsor and Newton stuff, plumped for Daler Rowney Acrylic Medium Soluble Matt Varnish, diluted odourless turps worked perfectly each time from the airbrush and gives a superb matt finish.

[Smithy]

9 hours ago, 224 Peter said:

I had this with my 1/32 Revell Typhoon. 

 

 

Humbrol enamel, then Kleer, apply decals, then a second coat of clear, then a week later brush applied Humbrol matte coat (acrylic)

I tried all sorts of things, but not another coat of Kleer!

Ended up doing a full repaint - not a happy camper at all. 

 

The room is/was warm and dry. 

 

I suspect that Humbrol Matte Coat MUST be sprayed, it is very thin. 

Any other thoughts?

 

 

Peter, as you're a fellow brush painter, I've been using Humbrol's bog standard 49 matt varnish as my preliminary matt coat since 2001 and I've never had any bother with it whatsoever over Klear and now Pledge. No reactions with the gloss coat and it doesn't mind a spray can matt coat over the top of it like W&N to seal any weathering. I've even used Testors Dullcote spray over Humbrol 49 without any drama.

[Graham Boak]

Thanks for the advice.  I brush paint enamels, with ocaissonal airbrushing, and remember having a spray can of W&N matt varnish back in the 70s after a spate of white blotches from Humbrol matt varnish.  It was very satisfactory, but when it ran out, there wasn't anywhere local I could buy more so reverted to Humbrol (and maybe a few others over the years) without a recurrence.  However I've recently bought the set of Humbrol Clears to get rid of my old tins, and the first time I used the Clear Matt I ended up with a white carrier deck.  As this was on top of deck markings and lift outlines that had tested my patience getting them on acceptably, I wasn't impressed.  I tried the "add another coat" but it didn't work, so repainted the deck around the markings - so-so results, as you might expect.  I have found a pot of Microscale flat, so I'm trying it tonight on a Matchbox Renault FT.  Any problem and I'm binning it and the Clear.

 

Sadly, my long-serving paint mule Lindberg Vulcan fell apart through plastic fatigue (brought on by the cat knocking it onto the floor), so I haven't got anything suitable to practice on.  Maybe I'll just throw together that Matchbox Victor, but it has been so hacked about already I don't think that it would be easy.

[Smithy]

Graham I should have also said that I'm an enamel brush painter as well. The only acrylics I use are Klear/Pledge as a pre and after decal coat, but you and i sound as if we use similar paints and techniques. For that reason I'd definitely recommend the W&N Professional Spray varnishes. I've heard so many horror stories about Humbrol clear coats that I won't go near them apart from the old 49 enamel matt varnish which I've never had a problem with, is my standard first matt coat on any build and which has never yellowed - well at least not in the 16 or 17 years I've been back in the hobby.

 

Hope that all helps in some small way,

 

Tim

[MilneBay]

Well when I used to use the old Humbrol Clear Matt varnish. This would occasionally happen. The solution, so simple, was to give it another coat and the chalkiness disappeared. If that is a result of a flat finish using a Future mix just give it another coat of Future which will fix it. I use Future as my decal setting solution, cheaper and better than the proprietary items, and that occasionally happens and a couple of dabs of Future on a brush clears it up.     

[FatFlyHalf]

W&N Galeria Acrylic  Matt, applied by brush works for me.

A very even flat finish.

Best I have ever used.

Edited February 26, 2018 by FatFlyHalf
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