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RAF CC Liberator rocket installations


EwenS

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Most Coastal Command Liberator fans will be familiar with the stub wing rocket installation on Liberator GR.III/Vs whereby 4 rockets were fitted to stub wings on the lower fuselage under the cockpit (Installation Type C is the official term I believe) as here 

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235015564-coastal-command-liberators/

Less well known however is the retractable bomb bay, 16 rocket, installation (4 on rails plus another 12 reloads in the bomb bay on racks). The few available photos I’ve seen were taken on the ground with the rails hanging out of the after bomb bay.  These apparently hinged sideways (2 each side of the bomb bay. These were used by the likes of 59 and 311 squadrons and 1 (Coastal) OTU. There is an illustration of the set up here:-

http://i.imgur.com/zkLLoKI.jpg

311 squadron had 10 of the former and 27 of the latter type pass through their hands between late 1943 and late 1944 according to “B-24 Liberator in RAF Coastal Command Service with focus on Aircraft of No 311 (Czech) Squadron RAF”.

Interestingly the stub wing set up appears on later serial numbers from about September 1943 but the earlier serials seem to have been retro-fitted with the bomb bay installation from late 1943 to Spring 1944 usually after some squadron use.  These conversions were carried out by Scottish Aviation Ltd at Prestwick.

Until now I’ve seen no detail of the internal arrangements for this, just the rails hanging out of the bomb bay.

I’ve now come across a website offering various Liberator aftermarket parts to be available in the next few months including a bomb bay rocket set. Any one heard of them / used them before?

http://slist.amiami.com/top/search/list?s_keywords=liberator&submit=Search&pagemax=40

Is this an Eduard production? It concerns me that the illustrations all come with a health warning “This is a temporary image and is different from the actual product”.

If the internal arrangements shown in the model are accurate then reloading would mean at least 2 poor souls entering the bomb bay and lugging 3in rockets around in the freezing cold while the aircraft was no doubt moving around considerably in bumpy conditions at low level (presumably after the aircraft was out of gunnery range of its intended target). Not exactly a fun occupation!

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Thanks Chris.

I too came across this the other day.  Most unusual and probably a one off.  It is a PB4Y-1 Liberator not a PB4Y-2 Privateer (which had an fuselage extended between the cockpit and the wing leading edge).  The rocket rails look of British design however. Probably in the USA somewhere at a test base - looks like a Hellcat behind it. Wouldn't like to be on a U-boat when that came over the horizon!

 

While on the subject of the US Navy PB4Y versions does anyone know if the following books worth investing in as I'm not familair with the series

Naval Fighters No 105 Consolidated PB4Y-1/1P https://www.amazon.co.uk/Consolidated-PB4Y-1-Liberator-Steve-Ginter/dp/0996825878/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519406967&sr=1-3&keywords=pb4y-1+liberator

Naval Fighters No 93 Convair PB4Y-2/P4Y-2 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Convair-Pb4y-2-Privateer-Fighters-Ninety-three/dp/0984611460/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519406765&sr=1-2&keywords=pb4y-2+Privateer

Got to laugh about these being an a naval fighter series!

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Touches of boiler-plate about that beauty.  I didn't notice at first what appears to be a belly pack with three more rocket launched, sitting in the ground behind the nosewheel.

 

I saw the hellcat's mainwheel, but in front of that the rear fuselage and tailwheel looks more like something off a Japanese aircraft.  Too much glare for me to identify it, any ideas?

 

 

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In the early 80s I worked with a chap who had been a RAF Thunderbolt pilot in the middle and Far East and after the war had been stationed at the College of land air warfare Old Sarum. He told me of a number of experiments that they had carried out, air burst 4000lb cookies etc but the one that amused me most was the rockets fitted to the mid-upper turret of a Lancaster. The story he told was that the worst case considered was a beam launch so this was the case used for the test, however what they weren't expecting was that as the rocket left the rail it did a smart 90 degree turn and took the fin and rudder with it. An experiment never tried again. I've always thought this might be a tall tale but having found original source evidence that the UK had been developing a parachute delivery system for a submersible, rockets on Lancasters sounds almost sane.

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3 hours ago, EwenS said:

Thanks Chris.

I too came across this the other day.  Most unusual and probably a one off.  It is a PB4Y-1 Liberator not a PB4Y-2 Privateer (which had an fuselage extended between the cockpit and the wing leading edge).  The rocket rails look of British design however. Probably in the USA somewhere at a test base - looks like a Hellcat behind it. Wouldn't like to be on a U-boat when that came over the horizon!

 

While on the subject of the US Navy PB4Y versions does anyone know if the following books worth investing in as I'm not familair with the series

Naval Fighters No 105 Consolidated PB4Y-1/1P https://www.amazon.co.uk/Consolidated-PB4Y-1-Liberator-Steve-Ginter/dp/0996825878/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519406967&sr=1-3&keywords=pb4y-1+liberator

Naval Fighters No 93 Convair PB4Y-2/P4Y-2 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Convair-Pb4y-2-Privateer-Fighters-Ninety-three/dp/0984611460/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1519406765&sr=1-2&keywords=pb4y-2+Privateer

Got to laugh about these being an a naval fighter series!

I think it depends on your interest in the PB4Y series. I have the PB4Y-2 book as well as others from the Ginter stable. In general, the text is rather minimal describing the development and difference in production series (eg F6F-3 through F6F-5) with lots of detail pictures but the Privateer book is a little different. The first half or so is on the aircraft itself with lots of interior and tech manual pictures. The second half focus is on the operational use with thumbnail reviews of all the patrol squadrons that operated the Privateer.

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13 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Touches of boiler-plate about that beauty.  I didn't notice at first what appears to be a belly pack with three more rocket launched, sitting in the ground behind the nosewheel.

 

I saw the hellcat's mainwheel, but in front of that the rear fuselage and tailwheel looks more like something off a Japanese aircraft.  Too much glare for me to identify it, any ideas?

 

 

I’m not convinced about it being a belly pack. Seems to me more like a 4 wheeled trolley for carrying stuff around on, a bit like those you get at diy stores. In this case it seems to have 3 more rocket rails on it. Could these be for the starboard side? Guess we will never know.

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Chuck

thanks for the info about the books.  I’m more interested about the technical side as I have Alan C Carey’s books about the operations of these aircraft in the Pacific in WW2.

Unfortunately we no longer have the kind of bookshops stocking this stuff where I used to go and browse before buying.

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5 hours ago, EwenS said:

I’m not convinced about it being a belly pack. Seems to me more like a 4 wheeled trolley for carrying stuff around on, a bit like those you get at diy stores. In this case it seems to have 3 more rocket rails on it. Could these be for the starboard side? Guess we will never know.

 

Agreed it is a trolley, but a very unusual one.  It appears to have a wide lower "tray" carrying three rocket rails, and then tapering side supports to what?  Why park it where it is if the rails weren't intended to go there?

I suspect the boxes are behind, out of the starboard side of the aircraft, rather than associated with the trolley.

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On 23/02/2018 at 7:10 PM, Aeronut said:

In the early 80s I worked with a chap who had been a RAF Thunderbolt pilot in the middle and Far East and after the war had been stationed at the College of land air warfare Old Sarum. He told me of a number of experiments that they had carried out, air burst 4000lb cookies etc but the one that amused me most was the rockets fitted to the mid-upper turret of a Lancaster. The story he told was that the worst case considered was a beam launch so this was the case used for the test, however what they weren't expecting was that as the rocket left the rail it did a smart 90 degree turn and took the fin and rudder with it. An experiment never tried again. I've always thought this might be a tall tale but having found original source evidence that the UK had been developing a parachute delivery system for a submersible, rockets on Lancasters sounds almost sane.

 

Thats sounds interesting! I wonder if there’s any books with this subject in?

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On 2/27/2018 at 1:05 PM, JWM said:

Does it mean that photo was taken after war?

I believe so as I have seen that photo on the China Lake Alumni website. I believe it was taken by one of the units that eventually became one of the VX Squadron’s in the 1950’s. My guess is either in Japan or western Pacific maybe Saipan ? Sometime either just before or immediately post war 1945. The Privateer is in the 3 tone camouflage not the overall Dark Sea Blue. I believe this was a test for multiple rocket launch positions, as im pretty sure that set-up was never used operationally.  

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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