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RAF Dk.Green camouflage color


ianpolinar

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The model shop owner said that it wasn't listed on the trade order form for 2018, even though it is on the 2018 colour chart Humbrol issued this year.

There are 20 or so other colours that seem to have disappeared from the enamel range....

I think there is a post about this range reduction somewhere here.

 

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A. AFAIK 163 is exactly the same shade as 116; difference is 163 is satin finish, 116 is matt finish

B. The 'missing' of colours has happened in the past. Humbrol de-list them for a period whilst they reformulate them. The 'missing' paints soon reappear. Humbrol/Hornby are not stupid; a number of the de-listed paints are on the instructions for the new kits just issued and new kits yet to come, they'd hardly do that if those paints were to be completely discontinued

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On 22-2-2018 at 1:13 PM, johnd said:

A prompt reply from emodels to my query about stocking individual pots of Hataka Blue Line: "Unfortunately not, as the UK importer has decided not to import them into the country." They will, however, continue to stock single pots of Red Line which will be imported.

 

Thanks, 303sqn, but Arma Hobby, like Hataka itself, is not UK based. Just concerned about postage costs.

 

John.
 

 

I have ordered paints from Hataka before and i must say that the postage was quite reasonable given the fact that it is from Poland.

My order consisted of 3 different sets and some single colors and i paid a mere 9 euro's for it and i had it whitin one and a half week...

I live in the Netherlands..so no sea between me and them .......

 

Cheers, Jan

 

 

Edited by janneman36
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22 hours ago, Black Knight said:

AFAIK 163 is exactly the same shade as 116; difference is 163 is satin finish, 116 is matt finish

 

Indeed, they're nearly indistinguishable with the naked eye when painted side by side. Well within the error you might find in real paint batches or the range of shades that result from fading. Mind you, I use the Acrylics these days but I've used the Enamels in the past and again there's not much difference there.

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  • 1 month later...
3 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Whats Mission models RAF Dk Grn like?, with XA stocks run out for the time being (and I more planned than my remianing stock) I need to source an alternative 

 

We should know by the end of the month mate, will have it done as it’s planned to be used on one of the next 4 builds along with the previous 6.

Will be able to see what it looks like against some other paints -

 

The ten day fighter schemes planned:

 

Ak air

Hataka

Mr Color

Mr Paint

Colourcoats

xtracylix

Vallejo

Mig

Tamiya

Mission

 

(Shameless plug)

 

 

Tony

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3 hours ago, Tony Oliver said:

 

We should know by the end of the month mate, will have it done as it’s planned to be used on one of the next 4 builds along with the previous 6.

Will be able to see what it looks like against some other paints -

 

The ten day fighter schemes planned:

 

Ak air

Hataka

Mr Color

Mr Paint

Colourcoats

xtracylix

Vallejo

Mig

Tamiya

Mission

 

(Shameless plug)

 

 

Tony

 

Shame, decided to try it anyway :)

Edited by PhantomBigStu
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Quote

Troy Vallejo 70.921 English Uniform is a very good match for the RAF  Musuem Dark Earth

Valejo 873 I found to match the RAF Museum series chart, which is the chart to match to, no colour pics etc etc. or also Spit 1 at Cosford, as that was painted to accurate RAF dk Green and dk Earth, I was offering up my chart and it matched after being told they made sure they did their homework and got it right ! (Medway Aircraft Preservation soc)

I also found a valejo matched the dark green, I see the article says 893 so thats probably it, my notes dont say the number but the bottle is here and I will confirm when I find it.

 

Try also Phoenix Precision paints (enamel) as they match to original RAF colour chips as well. Given the fact that we have all these differing matches, and some suggested RAF Dk Green colours were wildly out, someone out there given the job of coming up with a mix for a certain brand either is colour blind when it comes to matching or they just cant be bothered, to match a true reliable chart or just to even get the chart !

RLM70 and 71 is a case in point, nothing matched except for Phoenix !

 

I have seen stukas and he111s looking like they are in 71/02,  GS paints usually used, but I digress.

 

If a manufacturer says we matched to RAF Mus chart or went to Hendon or obtained original BS swatches and liaised with RAF, then we know we are onto a potential winner, when they cant say what they matched to, then beware. If they are proud of their accuracy they will say what they used, else if they shuffle their feet then beware !

 

Colour matching should by the way be done  with at least 1" size windows cut into neutral grey cartridge paper etc masks, not white or other colour paper !

 

see also Cybermodeler.com where Michael may have compared RAF paints with his colour analyser. https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/bs381c_table.shtml

 

Merlin

Edited by Merlin
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I don't like his Azure Blue very much, maybe my monitor but I do have the RAF Museum book & am familiar with Azure Blue as it appears in that, the Cybermodeler colour looks more like deep sky or similar & I don't think it is this monitor as most colours appear as I'd expect them too. I haven't checked the others out exhaustively but my gut instinct is they appear too dark./saturated

Steve.

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Not sure if you are referring to Cybermodeler, but as an insight into Cybermodeler site, I shall add...What Cybermodeler is doing is comparing the different painted out samples to swatches , he scans with a special scaner that converts a pigment colour to RGB, he is not trying to display on screen the colour, some colours may not have an ability to be displayed in RGB on screen, so if  Valejo123 matches the bar above it , it means it matches the original official colour swatch. Monitors cant always represent pigment colour, and sRGB colourspace is poor at greens, the AdobeRGB gamut triangle is far larger into the green area of the spectrum, so calibrating ones monitor to AdobeRGB1998 is the best approach (Spyder device etc), likewise Photoshop colour settings set to AdobeRGB1998, and gamma 2.2 by the way. beware though if creating artwork for progs that use sRGB such as PC games.

 

Merlin

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Hmm and after doing all that he matches Tamiys XF58 to both Dark Green and Dark Slate (Grey, presumably), and gives Humbrol 33 as a match for Night, which is not a pure black.

 

Cheers, but I'll stick with the (MAP chip-matched) Colourcoats thanks :D 

 

Stew

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On ‎03‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 10:51 PM, Merlin said:

 

 

see also Cybermodeler.com where Michael may have compared RAF paints with his colour analyser. https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/bs381c_table.shtml

 

Merlin

 

On ‎04‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:02 AM, stevehnz said:

I don't like his Azure Blue very much, maybe my monitor but I do have the RAF Museum book & am familiar with Azure Blue as it appears in that, the Cybermodeler colour looks more like deep sky or similar & I don't think it is this monitor as most colours appear as I'd expect them too. I haven't checked the others out exhaustively but my gut instinct is they appear too dark./saturated

Steve.

 

He's made the classic schoolboy error of thinking Ministry of Aircraft Production Azure Blue is the same colour as BS381C-104 Azure Blue (or perhaps not knowing that the Ministry of Aircraft Production even existed and had total say-so on RAF aircraft paint colours - the British Standards Institute was an irrelevance to British military aircraft painting at the time). That's the same mistake Humbrol and plenty other model paint manufacturers made (or at least those who don't sell "RAF Azure Blue - FS35231"). Humbrol at least have apparently corrected this since but I don't know about the others. At least one other still sells authentic post-1956 American RAF WW2 colours.

 

BS381C-104 is not relevant to RAF aircraft. Likewise, BS381C-101 Sky Blue is not the same colour as the pale Sky Blue found on some WW2 RAF aircraft.

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24 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

 

He's made the classic schoolboy error of thinking Ministry of Aircraft Production Azure Blue is the same colour as BS381C-104 Azure Blue (or perhaps not knowing that the Ministry of Aircraft Production even existed and had total say-so on RAF aircraft paint colours - the British Standards Institute was an irrelevance to British military aircraft painting at the time).

So does that mean that the Museum booklet with the RAF paint chips at the back is not accurate to RAF wartime paint colours?

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1 hour ago, Kaldrack said:

So does that mean that the Museum booklet with the RAF paint chips at the back is not accurate to RAF wartime paint colours?

No the booklet is good - but it doesn't match BS381C. To be fair, it doesn't claim to - it claims to match the Ministry of Aircraft Production colours. The confusion is just that BS381C happens to have colours, sometimes close enough to be considered the same, which share the same names. In most cases the BS381C colours are good enough for WW2 (Dark Green is pretty close, Dark Earth, Middle Stone and PRU Blue are pretty much identical, same goes for Medium Sea Grey etc), but it needs to be understood that it wasn't the primary reference at the time. Where a conflict exists - e.g. with Azure Blue, it is the Ministry of Aircraft Production shade which should be used.

 

When we get to Ocean Grey or Extra Dark Sea Grey, for example, those appear not to exist in BS381 although they were very common on RAF aircraft, which gives us a clue that it wasn't BS381 that was being used in the inter-war and WW2 era to actually specify paints to the manufacturers :)

 

BS381(c) editions were as follows:

BS 381 First published 1930 Colours for ready mixed paints
BS 381c First Published October 1931 Colours for ready mixed paints
Second edition 1943 Colours for ready mixed paints
Third edition 1944 Colours for ready mixed paints
Fourth edition March 1948 Colours for specific purposes
Fifth edition 1964 Colours for specific purposes
Sixth edition September 1980 Specification for colours for identification, coding and special purposes
Seventh edition March 1988 Specification for colours for identification, coding and special purposes
Eighth edition December 1996 Specification for colours for identification, coding and special purposes

 

The British Standards Institute generally tried to keep up to date with what the M.A.P. (and others) were mostly doing which is why there does appear to be correlation between the MAP and BSi colours. The important distinction is which one was driving which. The BSi was trying to keep current with what the M.A.P. were doing. The M.A.P. just did whatever they deemed best for their own needs in wartime.

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  • 2 years later...

Jamie,

Thanks for posting this, too many folk grab for 381C , even aircraft restorers. I was told by a well known referred to gentleman for warbird  spraying after restoration, that RAF Yellow , oh thats a dead easy one, look no further than BS381C 356 golden yellow.

WRONG !!! it has no 381C equivalent, neither has it a FS chart equivalent. the RAF Museum Series book (bible) has the true colour.

Just wish the plethora of yellows we see in decals were colour matched to it !

 

Merlin

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