Another Dutch Kestrel driven Fokker - the C-X, AZ, 1/72

[JWM]

Hi,

As in title - the second Kestrel driven Dutch Fokker in livery from April-May 1940: The Fokker C-X made out of AZ kit with small improvements.

I was puzzled that in instruction colour of top is different from that in LF  box of C-VD (I mean - the FS numbers are different) - so I asked in WW II section and got confirming. Therefore it is khaki from top. Please note, that "707" on photos have hastitly overpainted Dutch roundels on top wing. 

{EDIT - Three first photos replaced}

 

 

Among improvments new intake to bottom glycol cooler and landing lamp as well as bombs were done or added

 

Regards and comments welcome!

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by JWM
better light photos

[Buzby061]

Very nice. 

 

Proper modellers hands too. 

 

Pete

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Great lookng Fokker J-W 👍

[VG 33]

I like her either.

Patrick

[KRK4m]

Maybe it's the matter of lighting or simply you were too careful with the topside colour (i.e. not to make it too distant from greens), but in my opinion all these 1930s European aviation "khakis" were more or less based on the French one from decade earlier. For many years all we have been taught by various profile painters that "proper" warplane should sport green upper- and blue undersurfaces. Now we know that this is not the case - plenty of them were brown (either earth or chocolate/chestnut) and grey.

I have been totally amused when finding the almost brown khaki during the PZL P.11 restoration at the Polish Aviation Museum, but then came the PWS-26... Comparing these two the PZL lacquer looks almost green

Nevertheless the way you treated the pre-war Dutch roundels on the upper wings is exceptional - they look like the real ones on the 1940 photos. Well done, Brother...

Cheers

Michael

[JWM]

Gents, many thanks for comments.

Tomorrow I will try to do better light photos and replace those in which the noise of camera matrix is seen...

Regards

J-W

 

[Roger Holden]

55 minutes ago, KRK4m said:

Maybe it's the matter of lighting or simply you were too careful with the topside colour (i.e. not to make it too distant from greens), but in my opinion all these 1930s European aviation "khakis" were more or less based on the French one from decade earlier. For many years all we have been taught by various profile painters that "proper" warplane should sport green upper- and blue undersurfaces. Now we know that this is not the case - plenty of them were brown (either earth or chocolate/chestnut) and grey.

I have been totally amused when finding the almost brown khaki during the PZL P.11 restoration at the Polish Aviation Museum, but then came the PWS-26... Comparing these two the PZL lacquer looks almost green

Nevertheless the way you treated the pre-war Dutch roundels on the upper wings is exceptional - they look like the real ones on the 1940 photos. Well done, Brother...

Cheers

Michael

I think the 'European' use of Khaki goes back way beyond that. The first users of 'khaki' (an Anglo-Indian word), on aircraft were the British with their PC10.  I do know 100% that the Belgians used exactly the same PC10 shade on their aircraft right up to WW2. It's quite likely that the Dutch were also influenced by it as a number of British aircraft landed in Holland in WW1 and were interned and used by the Dutch. Many of the air forces which received numbers of British aircraft during or after WW1 continued with the same colour scheme. The same with the U.S. Army which used the British PC10 on their early aircraft (Thomas-Morse, etc), before they introduced their own, slightly-greener Olive Drab in the early 1920s.  The French only switched to khaki post-WW1. Of course, the Poles used lots of French-built aircraft like the Bleriot-Spad, Potez and Breguet. But before that they had British aircraft in khaki like the Bristol F2B. 

[KRK4m]

11 hours ago, Roger Holden said:

I think the 'European' use of Khaki goes back way beyond that. The first users of 'khaki' (an Anglo-Indian word), on aircraft were the British with their PC10.  I do know 100% that the Belgians used exactly the same PC10 shade on their aircraft right up to WW2. It's quite likely that the Dutch were also influenced by it as a number of British aircraft landed in Holland in WW1 and were interned and used by the Dutch. Many of the air forces which received numbers of British aircraft during or after WW1 continued with the same colour scheme. The same with the U.S. Army which used the British PC10 on their early aircraft (Thomas-Morse, etc), before they introduced their own, slightly-greener Olive Drab in the early 1920s.  The French only switched to khaki post-WW1. Of course, the Poles used lots of French-built aircraft like the Bleriot-Spad, Potez and Breguet. But before that they had British aircraft in khaki like the Bristol F2B. 

Surely you're right - I don't mean the French to be the inventors of khaki (neither the word nor the shade of greenish brown). Nevertheless the situation in Poland was specific - although using more than a hundred of ex-RAF aircraft in the 20s no one of them has been manufactured in Poland. On the other hand three Polish aviation factories have licence-built more than 600 French aircraft. And perhaps the camouflage paint formula could been also a part of licence agreement - hence the LWS factory at Lublin and PWS at Biala Podlaska that manufactured 250 and 340 fabric-covered Potez bombers respectively used wrap-around French "kaki" overall painting on their later (indigenously designed) aircraft too, while the PZL Warsaw factory that earlier manufactured Bleriot-SPAD and Wibault fighters (30 and 25 respectively) became used to "vert emaillite" colour applied to metal-clad French fighters. 

In my opinion this is the main reason why the PZL P.11 (and perhaps the metal-clad PZL bombers) featured a little more greenish and darker OD shade (combined with pale blue-gray undersurfaces) than the PWS-26, which appears to be ALMOST light-earth (Humbrol M29 with a dot of yellow) overall.

Cheers

Michael

[Roger Holden]

I remember reading years ago that the various Polish factories used different shades of khaki. Presumably there wasn't some government-specified colour standard, so they all picked their own......  In the Hit-Kit Spad 61 instructions, it says that the original French-manufactured Polish aircraft were dark green, but the PZL-manufactured were khaki....  As for the French, I'm not sure they know. I'm fairly sure the Nieuport-Delage fighters were dark green and the Breguet XIX was khaki. But for the other types, I don't know. Colour profiles in French magazines are very dubious and show khaki and dark green being used on the same types, so it's very confusing.....

[JWM]

Thanks for Khaki discussion Micheal and Roger  .

I put new photos made in a better light - those are three first

Regards

J-W

 

 

[Viking]

That is a nice looking biplane, one I was not familiar with. I love the over-painted roundels, they are perfectly done.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Emily-Emma silverscreen]

I like your fokker c-X !it is more beautifull than the one I built four years ago ,when I made my come back in kit-building after fifty idle [concerning making kits] years .this plane was one I  made and and thought it was  not a very easy to build kit ,after all those years of retirement!wish I had bought a couple more of these kits ,they are difficult to finf these days .but I still have  a 1/72 CRM  fokker C-X  in my stash [and a 1/72 CRM  fokker C-V as well. those bombs ,were they really yellow? you gave some ideas for things to ad ,if I don't get  copyright infringement related problems in doing it of course [?]

[JWM]

5 hours ago, Viking said:

That is a nice looking biplane, one I was not familiar with. I love the over-painted roundels, they are perfectly done.

John, many thanks. Regarding roundels -  I painted them and then gently sanded with 600 sanding paper (before application)

5 hours ago, Emily-Emma silverscreen said:

I still have  a 1/72 CRM  fokker C-X  in my stash [and a 1/72 CRM  fokker C-V as well. those bombs ,were they really yellow? you gave some ideas for things to ad ,if I don't get  copyright infringement related problems in doing it of course [?]

Emily-Emma, thank you! Regarding bombs they were in some bright colour

Was it yellow? - I am not 100% sure but could be. I do not have copyright for this colour

Cheers

J-W

 

 

 

[Emily-Emma silverscreen]

I am not an expert in dutch amunition used  in ww2, even not a beginning amateur!. I got an idea ,might those light coloured bombs have been training bombs ? when was the picture taken ,could it have been in may 1940?    the dutch still wonder why the war was lost in only five days and why  the   damned things didn't explode when they had been dropped on those f... moerdijk bridges, maybe you solved a historic problem that kept clever minds busy for decades! yellow is a nice colour to use in restraint ,I think. in a cockpit too ,paint one small lamp yellow and it will shine brightly visible. a wonderful  story togood to be true!  this picture was made in peace time ,the 702 has roundels on it and not the war triangles ,so big chance they were training bombs.  https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/memorix/63937a9c-2a94-019d-50e8-f4c6ed3e65e7       bytheway ,did you stumble in preparetory research before you started on this site?
 the man is building a 1on1 replica of the fokker C-X!  . amazing...http://www.sheetmetaltalk.com/showthread.php?t=2291

[woody37]

What a lovely looking biplane and beautifully built, that Kestrel profile gives it real clean looking lines

 

[Knight_Flyer]

Rigging looks great, makes quite a difference to the model. Like how you simulated the over-painted roundels.

[JWM]

3 hours ago, Emily-Emma silverscreen said:

,the 702 has roundels on it and not the war triangles ,so big chance they were training bombs.

Could be, as I said I am not 100% sure. However, regarding yellow as a colour for bombs this was main colour of British bombs during WWII. 

Thank you very much for links - this is an incredible work with restoration of CX. I've always doing a dearch in Net and in other sources prior to build a model, however this particular wan page was not found be me before, so thanks again.

 

3 hours ago, woody37 said:

What a lovely looking biplane and beautifully built, that Kestrel profile gives it real clean looking lines

 

Woody37, I appreciete very much your comment. There is something in this that a Kestrel engine gave nice, elegant and slime lines to any machine driven with it (perhaps apart of Heyeford  )

 

3 hours ago, Knight_Flyer said:

Rigging looks great, makes quite a difference to the model. Like how you simulated the over-painted roundels.

Many thanks Knight_Flyer. I 've chosen this 707 due to this not completly overpainted roundels...  

Regards

J-W