Blackburn Shark 755 Sqn FAA 1939/40

[Selwyn]

5 hours ago, ClaudioN said:

 

Graham,

 

thank you for the information. K4882 was one of the first three pre-production Mk. IIs. It was demonstrated at Hendon in 1936 with the Pegasus and closed canopy, Flight magazine typically emphasizing significantly improved performance. Interestingly, in his books Sturtivant reports the same engine for the Shark Mk. III and the Swordfish but, whereas in the latter the Pegasus III.M is rated at 690 h.p., power for the Shark Pegasus is given as 760 h.p. Was it really the same engine?

Sturtivant also mentions S.19/36 for the last 95 Sharks and the date of the amendment implies a very quick change of mind. One thought... Around that time, Blackburn had to accept the Perseus in lieu of the Mercury on the Skua. Maybe engine production, availability and allocation to different types had a part in this.

 

Claudio

Claudio you may be right on this, as the same mercury to  perseus change happened on the westland lysander around the same time (mk1 to Mk 2).

 

Selwyn

Edited February 15, 2018 by Selwyn

[gamevender]

A visual reference of the kit being discussed.

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by gamevender

[72modeler]

23 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The photo of L2343 in FAA Squadrons 3rd edition is also captioned as a Mk.II but has the canopy of a Mk.III, a three-blade prop and a long exhaust.  There are no signs of TT stripes underneath.  So I looked in Air Britain's RAF serials Lxxxx to discover that all Shark orders were for Mk.IIs.  This was immediately contradicted by Sturtivant's FFA A/c of WW2, where the final two orders (including all Lxxxx Sharks) were Mk.IIIs.  This is backed by the account in the older Putnam Blackburn Aircraft since 1909 by A J Jackson.  Sturtivant also says that L2343 was converted into a target tug, but there are no obvious mods in the photo.  L2359 is recorded as being beyond repair at the makers in December 1940, yet as F with 755 Sq 4-42 to 4-43, and possibly as W6.MM at Staverton September 1943!

 

in modelling terms it doesn't matter - it has a canopy therefore it is a Mk.III.  The canopy does look from the side very much like that of a Harvard, but the two are independent and it would be interesting to know whether the sectional shape was different or a Harvard/Texan canopy will serve - I suspect several have already!

 

I agree that DG/DE has been considered normal for permanently land-based aircraft of the FAA, not just trainers, at least in the early war years.  In later years TSS appears universal.

Graham and Cherisy,

 

Maybe a Henschel Hs-126 or SBD canopy might be adaptable? They look to be similar in height and width at the base. Just a guess, though.

Mike

23 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The photo of L2343 in FAA Squadrons 3rd edition is also captioned as a Mk.II but has the canopy of a Mk.III, a three-blade prop and a long exhaust.  There are no signs of TT stripes underneath.  So I looked in Air Britain's RAF serials Lxxxx to discover that all Shark orders were for Mk.IIs.  This was immediately contradicted by Sturtivant's FFA A/c of WW2, where the final two orders (including all Lxxxx Sharks) were Mk.IIIs.  This is backed by the account in the older Putnam Blackburn Aircraft since 1909 by A J Jackson.  Sturtivant also says that L2343 was converted into a target tug, but there are no obvious mods in the photo.  L2359 is recorded as being beyond repair at the makers in December 1940, yet as F with 755 Sq 4-42 to 4-43, and possibly as W6.MM at Staverton September 1943!

 

in modelling terms it doesn't matter - it has a canopy therefore it is a Mk.III.  The canopy does look from the side very much like that of a Harvard, but the two are independent and it would be interesting to know whether the sectional shape was different or a Harvard/Texan canopy will serve - I suspect several have already!

 

I agree that DG/DE has been considered normal for permanently land-based aircraft of the FAA, not just trainers, at least in the early war years.  In later years TSS appears universal.

 

[cherisy]

On 14/02/2018 at 4:04 PM, Graham Boak said:

The photo of L2343 in FAA Squadrons 3rd edition is also captioned as a Mk.II but has the canopy of a Mk.III, a three-blade prop and a long exhaust.  There are no signs of TT stripes underneath.  So I looked in Air Britain's RAF serials Lxxxx to discover that all Shark orders were for Mk.IIs.  This was immediately contradicted by Sturtivant's FFA A/c of WW2, where the final two orders (including all Lxxxx Sharks) were Mk.IIIs.  This is backed by the account in the older Putnam Blackburn Aircraft since 1909 by A J Jackson.  Sturtivant also says that L2343 was converted into a target tug, but there are no obvious mods in the photo.  L2359 is recorded as being beyond repair at the makers in December 1940, yet as F with 755 Sq 4-42 to 4-43, and possibly as W6.MM at Staverton September 1943!

 

in modelling terms it doesn't matter - it has a canopy therefore it is a Mk.III.  The canopy does look from the side very much like that of a Harvard, but the two are independent and it would be interesting to know whether the sectional shape was different or a Harvard/Texan canopy will serve - I suspect several have already!

 

I agree that DG/DE has been considered normal for permanently land-based aircraft of the FAA, not just trainers, at least in the early war years.  In later years TSS appears universal.

Ive read somewhere that Pavlas KI30 Ann  canopy may fit? 

 

[TonyW]

Here's a photo from a late 1930's issue of Flying Magazine that might help.

 

 

It's the  same plane FROG depicted in their Penguin range of kits just prior to WW2.

 

Tony.. 

[ClaudioN]

17 hours ago, cherisy said:

Ive read somewhere that Pavlas KI30 Ann  canopy may fit?

Yes, it was said in an earlier Shark thread, here on Britmodeller. Sorry I can't find it now.

 

By the way, apologies to everybody for repeating myself, as I just re-discovered:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234988960-wartime-shark/

 

Chris had posted a scanned a page of the Canada's Wings Vol.1 "The Blackburn Shark" book, that explains the Tiger vs. Pegasus story. By the way, I also found a Flight magazine picture of the Pegasus Shark, K4882.

This was presented at the S.B.A.C. display at Hatfield on June 29th, 1936 (Note: the Shark Mk. III production specification 19/36 was dated June 16th and it was amended on July 7th.).

 

Claudio

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by ClaudioN

[dogsbody]

That page re-posted here, for everyone's convenience.

 

 

 

Chris

[ClaudioN]

A few more bits, gleaned here and there...

 

from F. K. Mason "The British Bomber since 1914":

"By then, however (April 1937), it had become clear that recurring troubles with the inadequately developed Tiger engine would prevent the Shark from gaining the unqualified confidence of the Fleet Air Arm, particularly at sea. The expected significant increase in engine power had not yet materialised (...)

(...) the Bristol Pegasus proved to be superior (as was suggested by flight trials of the pre-production Shark II, K4882) (...)

(...) Pegasus engine was some 40 per cent cheaper than the troublesome Tiger, it was logical that the Shark should be taken out of service as soon as possible (...)"

 

Another interesting piece of information is that "the majority of earlier versions" were "modified to the final production standard". Indeed, Sturtivant "FAA aircraft 1920-1939" has mention of many airframes passing through the makers at some time between late 1937 and early 1939.

From 1938 work was carried out at the newly-opened Blackburn factory in Dumbarton, the first "rebuilt" Sharks undergoing test flights from nearby Abbotsinch in July ("Scottish Sharks", Flight magazine, July 14, 1938).

 

What was involved in the modifications is not said, but seemingly this meant modification to Tiger-engined Mk. III configuration. Sturtivant book includes a photo of K5656/X3L of No. 755 Squadron, a Mk. II by serial, showing the enclosed canopy and three-bladed propeller. So far I failed to notice another obvious feature, namely that most, or possibly all Sharks in training units had their arrester hook removed.

 

Claudio