Spitfire 1b - KP 1/72 and PixScan tests

[Beard]

Nice work on the serial; the starboard side anyway, as you haven't posted a photograph of the port side.

 

I think the AZ/ KP stencil sheet, that you get with all their Spitfires, is one they produced for their first Spitfire I. I always refer to the Airfix I when applying stencils, because it's easier to understand.

[Courageous]

2 hours ago, CedB said:

Couldn't waste the water warmer

My partner 'had' one of these, I relocated it...very useful.

I can't help but notice on the underside view of your spit that it looks like you only 'gloss' locally where the decal goes?  I normally 'Klear' everywhere thinking that when it comes to the final satin coat, I want an even finish, where as yours may not. Am I talking out of my bottom? 

[CedB]

Thanks Simon The port side serial is from the kit and went on nicely:

 

Seven stencils - count ‘em! by Ced Bufton, on Flickr

 

Thanks for the tip about using the Airfix stencil instructions - I'll try to remember next time!

 

Thanks Stuart Oh no, not the old 'gloss before transfer' argument discussion... others have pilloried me in the past for not gloss coating but my excuses are:

• Will Pattison, recommended by PC and one of my 'go to' YouTube guys, has shown that gloss coating doesn't help prevent silvering
• I've found that silvering is more a feature of the decal than the surface
• Colourcoats has a nice satin finish and
• I'm lazy bone idle.

Of course, if I had gloss coated, you wouldn't be able to spot the stencils:

 

Spot the stencils! by Ced Bufton, on Flickr

 

If they don't get matted by the varnish I KNOW there will be several readers tutting, shaking their heads and thinking 'I told you so' but we shall see, we shall see

 

I've started my next build.

It's going to be easy.

Seriously, I need a rest.

I've selected two easy kits from the stash, Two Red Arrows WiP started here.

[Courageous]

You may be right Ced but I have been told the science why we should.... Let's see how your current bird turns out, not that that will be conclusive. 

Can't believe you've another WiP so soon, I'm not going ask how you have on the go  

Edited February 23, 2018 by Courageous
Addition

[Hamden]

 

That looks very nice - well worth all the effort with the masking 

 

     Roger

[Biggles87]

Will you be taking the masking off the canopy or is that the 'blind flying ' hood?

 

John

[keefr22]

4 hours ago, CedB said:

Will Pattison, recommended by PC and one of my 'go to' YouTube guys, has shown that gloss coating doesn't help prevent silvering

 

I can't watch that guys videos (started to watch an oil paint weathering one of his once, lasted about two minutes before hitting the red X) as his voice does my head in. But he might have been lucky and avoided silvering on a matt surface, but thousands of other modellers feel the need to gloss before decalling, are we all wrong Ced?  I know personally I used to get awful silvering in the time before I knew better, I don't get any now! 

 

Still,  that's another lovely Spit for the ceiling, even if your stencil decals look like they've silvered, we shall see... 

 

Keith

[amblypygid]

Lovely Spit, Ced.

 

I confess that all this paraphernalia for decalling leaves me cold. I dip mine in cold water for about five seconds (you know to what I refer), then remove and let the moisture work into the paper. Some stubborn decals require another dip or even two, but that's all. Then slide and apply. Rarely get silvering, whether applying to matte or gloss surfaces. Couldn't tell you why, though.

[perdu]

I like, Ced, just saying

[The Spadgent]

Looking great Ced. This is modelling right? so whatever works baby.  Either way you always end with a stunner. 

Johnny.

[CedB]

18 hours ago, Courageous said:

You may be right Ced but I have been told the science why we should.... Let's see how your current bird turns out, not that that will be conclusive. 

Can't believe you've another WiP so soon, I'm not going ask how you have on the go  

Thanks Stuart - results (and worms) below

18 hours ago, Hamden said:

 

That looks very nice - well worth all the effort with the masking 

 

     Roger

Thanks Roger - yep, worth it (on this one)

18 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

Will you be taking the masking off the canopy or is that the 'blind flying ' hood?

 

John

Hi John - I can't wait, but need to leave it on until I've finished with the varnishing and messing about. Fingers crossed

18 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

I can't watch that guys videos (started to watch an oil paint weathering one of his once, lasted about two minutes before hitting the red X) as his voice does my head in. But he might have been lucky and avoided silvering on a matt surface, but thousands of other modellers feel the need to gloss before decalling, are we all wrong Ced?  I know personally I used to get awful silvering in the time before I knew better, I don't get any now! 

 

Still,  that's another lovely Spit for the ceiling, even if your stencil decals look like they've silvered, we shall see... 

 

Keith

"... are we all wrong Ced?" Um, well Keith, scroll down a bit...

16 hours ago, amblypygid said:

Lovely Spit, Ced.

 

I confess that all this paraphernalia for decalling leaves me cold. I dip mine in cold water for about five seconds (you know to what I refer), then remove and let the moisture work into the paper. Some stubborn decals require another dip or even two, but that's all. Then slide and apply. Rarely get silvering, whether applying to matte or gloss surfaces. Couldn't tell you why, though.

Thanks Chris - you're a very lucky man I guess. Or perhaps you're always using decent decals. Whatever it is, keep it up (and your fingers crossed!)

15 hours ago, perdu said:

I like, Ced, just saying

Thanks Bill, kind of you (but hold your breath...)

2 hours ago, The Spadgent said:

Looking great Ced. This is modelling right? so whatever works baby.  Either way you always end with a stunner. 

Johnny.

Thanks Johnny, yep, whatever works...

 

 

OK, OK, wait no longer. Matt coat on:

 

 

More matt coat on. No luck. Pause for...

 

Tut tut, and and told you so . Keith you and thousands of other modellers are NOT wrong. Will has an unusual voice and now I have one too - whiny. Rats.

You know how I like to share my mistakes so let's have some close ups:

 

 

Ugh. Note that the serials, stencils and white trestle marks are three different types of decal so my theory (and Will's) is obviously rubbish.

His solution (yes, I did type that in a whiny voice) is to poke the decal with a sharp thing and apply strong decal solution:

 

Strong by Ced Bufton, on Flickr 

 

Did that work?

 

 

 

No then. Double rats.

 

Right, what to do (after more weeping, obviously). Although this was an experiment I think it turned out quite well, until the transfers.

I'm thinking pull off the transfers with sellotape, gloss coat, reapply transfers (maybe even the stencils) and matt coat.

Any other ideas?

 

I'll wait until my eyes clear (just joking), glue some jet stuff and come back later for a review.

[The Spadgent]

Well I did say “whatever works” I was reluctant to say I’ve had little trouble since glossing first as you mentioned that the other way worked for you. But for me a gloss coat works a treat. (I had real problems before I learned about glossing) Maybe ripping off might be a little step too far? They are little stickers though. Let em dry out and see how crispy they go? Might come off nice and easy.  You could dab paint over the top? I have found some times if you add a ton of micro sol then roll with a cotton bud get rid of the silver too.

looking forward to see how you get on.

johnny.

[Beard]

It's got to be worth giving the transfers a go with the almost-boiling water and cotton wool technique.

[perdu]

You know that 'silver' in this context is simply (I never even laughed, I didn't) air trapped beneath a membrane, the varnish, don't you

 

Replace said air with liquid  'not-air' by piercing with tiny holes then dabbing in gloss varnish with a cotton bud

 

 

Bad luck dear friend, bad luck

 

Do try adding transfers onto wet clear stuff please, soon.  .😮

[Smithy]

I really feel for you Ced. I learnt that the hard way too. Ever since my first two builds when I got back into the hobby, every single one since has only been decalled after liberal applications of gloss (Klear and now Pledge). Sorry I know that's hindsight and all that.

 

As Perdu says above the problem is the tiny pockets of air trapped between the decal and the "knobbly" surface of the matt paint. I'd try as Perdu suggests first off. If that doesn't solve it then you might have to take the drastic step of remove the stencils and starting again.

 

It's a great looking Spit so don't give up on her just yet, it's just a bump in the road.

[Courageous]

6 minutes ago, Smithy said:

bump in the road.

Poor Ced seems to have a few of them but he keeps battling on...he is a 'Pathfinder' .

 

[06/24]

He’s our point man at the bleeding edge of what is possible. Microsol will soon sort the stencils I’m sure 

[keefr22]

I'm with Bill too Ced - and if you have any I'd use Klear as that's thinner than most gloss model varnishes & 'should'  flow through the tiny holes you need to make in the decals better. 

 

Good luck! 

 

Keith

[perdu]

With painted surfaces it is a matter (Simple? Not a blimming chance!) of spray nicely BUT spray wet

 

If we get the balance right we get the lovely semi-glossy sheen I got with Colourcoats Dark Green

That takes a decal (see, I can say it even though...) delightfully

If we get the balance wrong (or use thirty five year old Authentics) we get a dull, flat even, surface that harbours ridges and hillocks that will encourage retention of underskin air as my Dark Earth coating YUKKH

 

Matt paint causes the light leaving a surface to scatter, thus no shine when what we want is a shiny surface for decals and after that a flat surface that will cause scatter, this is what we use the Matt varnishes for

 

fix the stickers then kill the shine

[CedB]

Thanks everyone - I really love the way that people circle round problems like this offering useful suggestions and experiences, what a great site

 

 

Thanks Johnny - I will be glossing from now on, believe me!

Thanks Stuart - hopefully I've finished my experimenting for a while and can just relax again.

Thanks Jon - I've already tried Sol and Daco strong - no joy

 

3 hours ago, Beard said:

It's got to be worth giving the transfers a go with the almost-boiling water and cotton wool technique.

Thanks Simon - I get the idea; soften the transfer and the heat will also force the bubbles out. Worth a try:

 

 

 

At first I was pleased as the silvering appeared to have gone but then, when they dried properly, they were shiny again:

 

 

 

Rats. Thanks anyway, worth a try.

 

3 hours ago, perdu said:

You know that 'silver' in this context is simply (I never even laughed, I didn't) air trapped beneath a membrane, the varnish, don't you

 

Replace said air with liquid  'not-air' by piercing with tiny holes then dabbing in gloss varnish with a cotton bud

 

 

Bad luck dear friend, bad luck

 

Do try adding transfers onto wet clear stuff please, soon.  .😮

3 hours ago, Smithy said:

I really feel for you Ced. I learnt that the hard way too. Ever since my first two builds when I got back into the hobby, every single one since has only been decalled after liberal applications of gloss (Klear and now Pledge). Sorry I know that's hindsight and all that.

 

As Perdu says above the problem is the tiny pockets of air trapped between the decal and the "knobbly" surface of the matt paint. I'd try as Perdu suggests first off. If that doesn't solve it then you might have to take the drastic step of remove the stencils and starting again.

 

It's a great looking Spit so don't give up on her just yet, it's just a bump in the road.

2 hours ago, keefr22 said:

I'm with Bill too Ced - and if you have any I'd use Klear as that's thinner than most gloss model varnishes & 'should'  flow through the tiny holes you need to make in the decals better. 

 

Good luck! 

 

Keith

Good points. Here's a close up:

 

 

 

The paint doesn't look that bumpy but, at a microscopic level, I can imagine the light bouncing around. I can also see that the shiny carrier film reflects the light much more than the surrounding paint. Covering them in Klear would make both of them shiny eh?

 

Try Klear by Ced Bufton, on Flickr

 

Well, that seems to have done it!

 

 

 

I've brushed Klear on the other ones and that's now drying. Thanks again for the advice.

 

1 hour ago, perdu said:

With painted surfaces it is a matter (Simple? Not a blimming chance!) of spray nicely BUT spray wet

 

If we get the balance right we get the lovely semi-glossy sheen I got with Colourcoats Dark Green

That takes a decal (see, I can say it even though...) delightfully

If we get the balance wrong (or use thirty five year old Authentics) we get a dull, flat even, surface that harbours ridges and hillocks that will encourage retention of underskin air as my Dark Earth coating YUKKH

 

Matt paint causes the light leaving a surface to scatter, thus no shine when what we want is a shiny surface for decals and after that a flat surface that will cause scatter, this is what we use the Matt varnishes for

 

fix the stickers then kill the shine

Thanks Bill, great information and tips.

Using Jamie's airbrushing method for varying finish is nice though. I can always (and WILL always) gloss coat over the top eh?

[Beard]

At least my suggestion didn't do any harm.

[perdu]

Not any harm, if they soften and conform - the job, she is done 

[CedB]

No harm at all, thanks Simon and Bill

 

I re-matted and couldn't wait to get the canopy Ultra Mask off to see how it performed:

 

 

 

Worked well, except in one spot where I suspect that the glue used to stick the mirror had run under the mask. Rats.

You can also see in those shots that the transfers are still a bit silvered, but good enough for the ceiling I think:

 

 

I've learned my lesson, trust me!

Prop on and RFI tomorrow.

[Cookenbacher]

Out of curiosity, did the individual serial codes from another manufacturer added to the right side silver as badly?

 

I've never glossed an entire model for decals, but often use the 'Future method' for individual areas and then blend them in later with a matt coat.

I'm further handicapped now, as most matt coats have started irritating my lungs - I can spray enamels all day long (with a mask of course), but open the lid to W&N (or Vallejo or AK) matt varnish and I'm down for the count, mask or no. I've really lucked out with my last few builds as silvering has been kept to a minimum with just setting solutions.

[malpaso]

Ced, please ignore this if you like, but when I have a code/stencil clash I assume that the factory painted stencil would be lost under the field applied code.  An excellent excuse for ignoring stencils on any repainted WW2 aircraft?

Cheers

Will