1:147 HMS Surprise

[morty_3333]

Great progress Lars,watching with great interest!

Keep Sticking! Cheers,  Pete

[lars_opland]

Thanks Again, Morty & All,

 

Not much to share just now, but I have made a bit of progress on gun port hinges. First, some relatively stout stretched sprue was cut to uniform length with another notched cutting jig & glued against the top & bottom corners of all the closed ports on starboard side. The following evening, I made another jig, notched in 2 corners for 2 different lengths of hinge straps for the deeper top & shallower bottom door halves, & chopped a bunch of the longer ones from .010" x .020" strip. I'm doing it this way so I don't need to keep 2 sizes of such tiny bits sorted.

 

For this detail I've resorted to the Marquardt drawings, though I'm still finding errors in them....

 

 

It just dawned on me a few days ago that there is a main mast bitt & fife rail located ahead of the mast on the gun deck, plainly visible in the draft of the sister ship & faintly visible in the L'Unite draft but nowhere to be found in Marquardt's. That's okay; the hull's not glued together yet.

 

Anyone with the Lavery/Hunt book in hand may be able to find where Marquardt botched the hull lines, too...so scratch builders will definitely want to use the Admiralty draft for that....

 

Cheers, -Lars

[PZRGREN]

Phenomenal modelling skills on display as well as a truly superb build.   

 

Roger.

[lars_opland]

Thank You, Roger,

 

At the very least I'm having a lot of fun with this & possibly inspiring more such projects. There are a great many ships that could be started this way with the Lindberg frigate or any one of the USS Constitution kits out there...& did I hear aright elsewhere that Capt. Pellew's HMS Indefatigable began life as a 74? There's a razee project for a Heller L'Superbe....

 

Cheers, -Lars

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I have only just caight up with this (as you might notice from a sudden slew of “likes”).  As someone else has observed, you make this look easy - but we all know it’s not.  

 

[Chalk me up as another devotee of the Aubrey-Maturin books.  By a distance the most immersive series of fiction books on any subject that I have read - some authors struggle to stay internally consistent across a trilogy, let alone 20-odd volumes.  And even when you’ve read them before they are exciting]

Edited March 10, 2018 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[MikeR]

14 hours ago, lars_opland said:

...& did I hear aright elsewhere that Capt. Pellew's HMS Indefatigable began life as a 74? There's a razee project for a Heller L'Superbe....

Nearly - the Indefatigable was originally an Ardent class 64 rather than a 74.

 

But.... the Heller Superbe is a good representation of a Temeraire class 74 and one of those was amongst the French third rates that were razee'd to produce the large frigates that begat the Indefatigable and her near-sisters in 1794! From "French Warships in the Age of Sail 1626-1786" by Winfield and Roberts:

 

Quote

Borée: Lorient Dockyard. (Constructeur, Charles Segondat-Duverner)

Keel Laid: 11.1784. Launched: 17.11.1785. Completed: 8.1787. Renamed Ça Ira 4.1794, then Agricola 6.1794, raséed as a heavy frigate 4-7.1794. Hospital hulk at Rochefort 4.1796, and Broken Up there 1803.

I should note, however, that the French originals weren't very succesfull, as Borée's history shows! Nor were the Indefatigable's sisters Anson and Magnanime very succesfull either.... which probably says a lot about Pellew's abilities as a seaman if he managed to get the best out of what was considered a dog of a ship type!

 

As far as I'm aware there aren't any surviving plans of what the French did to produce their razees so that gives plenty freedom as no-one can say your wrong!

 

Mike.

[lars_opland]

Thanks Guys!

 

Mike, thank you for all the info on razee frigates. Regarding Pellew & "Indy", any sailing ship, in any line of work, was only as good as her captain & crew. The Captain supplied the mind & resolve; the crew brought all the skill & strength that went into every maneuver & evolution. Without both, the ships were just drifting wrecks looking for a place to happen.

 

On one of these things, anywhere up to 100 guys (or more) all had to know exactly what to do whenever the Officer of the Deck yelled "Ready about!"...or anything else. The big trading barks with their Jarvis brace winches whittled that down to about 20-25 guys but that all came later, & they were sometimes too short-handed to save themselves in a sudden wind shift.

 

Cheers, -Lars

[Killingholme]

On 09/03/2018 at 8:53 PM, lars_opland said:

Thank You, Roger,

 

At the very least I'm having a lot of fun with this & possibly inspiring more such projects. There are a great many ships that could be started this way with the Lindberg frigate or any one of the USS Constitution kits out there...& did I hear aright elsewhere that Capt. Pellew's HMS Indefatigable began life as a 74? There's a razee project for a Heller L'Superbe....

 

Cheers, -Lars

I believe so.

 

Another possibility for the Heller kit would be to model one of the three 74's razeed down to 58 gun ships during 1813 to counter the American frigate emergency. Two further were completed after the war. They were Majestic (built 1785), Goliath (1781), Saturn (1786) [and post-war conversions Elephant (1786), Excellent (1787)] 

 

As razees they were the last two-decker fourth rates to join the Navy, and they each kept their original gundeck of twenty-eight 32pdrs and the upper deck 18pdrs were replaced by 42pdr carronades + two 12pdr chase guns. A contemporary source described them in comparision to the Americans as:

 

"Superior in sailing, an equal degree in force and, with the aid of a black hammock cloth drawn down other the waist-barricade , such a disguised appearance as might induce the large American frigates to come down and engage"

[lars_opland]

Thanks Again, Will,

 

I'm taking notes on these suggestions you guys have been posting. My 74 is stashed in the attic, already completed up to the point of partial standing rigging (as it has been for over 25 years...), but this info is interesting nonetheless.

 

Cheers, -Lars

[Killingholme]

2 hours ago, lars_opland said:

My 74 is stashed in the attic, already completed up to the point of partial standing rigging (as it has been for over 25 years...)

 

That's nothing!! Here in the UK we have HMS Unicorn. She's been patiently sitting in 'ordinary' for 194 years......

 

 

[lars_opland]

Thanks Again, Will,

 

I had heard of that one but never saw a photo before. She looks like "a real fixer-upper"!

 

Cheers, -Lars

[MikeR]

The good thing about the Unicorn is that she's a sister of HMS Trincomalee which is preserved in Hartlepool and both are great examples of the Leda-class frigate (the same type as HMS Shannon). They have different configurations - Unicorn has a Seppings round stern whilst Trincomalee has the traditional style, albeit heavily modified when she was re-rated as corvette in the 19th century.

 

The amusing thing about the Leda-class is that it was based on Jacques Noel-Sane's Hébé, which in itself acted a template for the majority of France's frigate construction during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars! The late Jean Boudroit published a monograph on Hébé's sister, the Venus (LINK) which I would love to get my hands on, but it's a heck of an expensive thing! There was a Florida gent on THIS forum making a set of CAD plans of a similar ship, the Cornélie: Link and LINK.

 

After all, how can you not like the gracefullnes of this:

 

The Virginie of 1794 and one of Pellew's prizes as well!

 

Mike.

Edited March 12, 2018 by MikeR

[Al Gunthwaite]

Folks

 

Just taking a step back, one learns a lot from this forum.  Great stuff! 

 

Al

[Sgt.Squarehead]

What a great thread.....TBH I only understand about one word in three (I'm a track-head!   ) but I've enjoyed the pictures hugely! 

[MikeR]

I think Lars would agree with me when I write that the "Age of Sail" period is extremely fascinating when you really start digging into it. Now that I've managed to find sources for the French it becomes even more interesting when you see the contrasts between their approach to things and the British way.

 

I would say that my favourite nautical term from the period is Go large which means "To have the wind at such an angle to the sail that the vessel gains its highest speed". It's quite amusing when you realise that the term means something quite different today - "To enjoy oneself to the maximum"!

 

Anyway, enough of the thread hijacking, I'm looking forward to Lars' latest progress report!

 

Mike.

[lars_opland]

Thanks again, folks,

 

Mike, I don't mind discussing the history or the practical aspects of sailing here at all. Sail trim & points of sail will be relevant to the rigging process here anyway. The most efficient point of sail for most vessels, regardless of rig, is the "broad reach", or sailing directly across the wind. On this point of sail, forward motion translates to increased power long before the relative movement of ship & wind brings the latter too far forward to be caught by the sails. Running straight down wind is often represented as a fast ride by ignorant authors, but a moderate wind becomes less relative wind & less power as soon as the ship begins to move, plus only the total sail area of one mast is actually exposed to the wind, so it is generally the slowest point of sail. Ships will also generally tend to "roll like pigs" when the wind is not steadying the ship by pushing from one side, which also produces far greater wear & tear on sails, cordage & spars...not to mention the incidental mal de mar.

 

Thank you too, Sarge; just rig a snorkel & stick to the shallows...it's not like a tank has never been to sea before.... # ;^)##

 

Cheers, -Lars

[Courageous]

I know very little about sailing ships but your explanation of wind and sail was very informative without going 'OTT'.

 

Stuart

[lars_opland]

Thanks Stuart & All,

 

Still finishing up deck furniture here. Wire belaying pins have been added to the mast bitts (USCGC Eagle has "fife rails" around the masts; not sure when they started calling them that), & I included the kit's beakhead bulkhead here to show where the tan part came from: 

 

 

...& the parts are painted, except where they'll be glued to the decks:

 

 

The Captain's day room has been painted out with Testors Radome Tan overhead, Military Brown bulkhead & this rather dark Flat Sky Blue in the privy:

 

 

The lid for the (fictional) skylight was fabricated from bits of an old CD box, edges to be evened up later with an emery board:

 

 

Channels are cut from .040" styrene & temporary shrouds rigged to hold them in place (under the deck rails in the Admiralty draft) while places are marked for the chain plate notches, main mast first to see how this would all go...

 

 

The notches were kept to a jeweler's saw kerf at first, then the parts are re-positioned, discrepancies marked in pencil & offending holes widened only in the direction they need to go...

 

 

 

Getting incrementally closer!

 

Cheers, -Lars

[Biggu]

Lars, I'm late to this party, and have missed my 'personal' updates... I will follow along with great interest......

 

Your old Pal

 

Jeff

[lars_opland]

Thanks Jeff,

 

Welcome aboard!

 

Cheers, -Lars

[Kris B]

Lots of work, but up to now it looks good. 

[lars_opland]

Thank you, Kris,

 

So far, all I've done is turn one frigate kit into another one & get a few things painted along the way. Still making parts but will soon (soon in a relative sense) turn the corner & start building. Then comes rigging...& the crew....

 

Cheers, -Lars

[lars_opland]

Hi All,

Not much to tell, but enough for an update anyway.

 

All 6 channels are cut to size, trimmed to fit against the hull sides & slightly bent to follow the sheer along the bottom of the deck rail, here held in place with temporary shrouds so all the chain plate notches can be "eyeballed", marked in pencil, & notched:

 

 

There are several gauges of black annealed wire in the wire bin here, but this is the thinnest I have & will do for chain plates &, later, footropes. Looks like I'll need to buy more before this is over.

 

The smallest after-market deadeyes that I have been able to find, from Artesania Latina or Model Shipways, seem to be 2.5 mm in diameter & are perfect for main & fore lower shrouds. One of these from AL was crimped into a loop of the black wire to determine finished width & depth of the notches needed, which came near enough to 1 mm by 0.5 mm. The notches were whittled out with a #11 blade:

 

 

2.5 mm isn't small enough for the mizzen shrouds or topmast shrouds though, & the spacing between some of the channel notches won't even allow for it so, failing to find dowel small enough & doubting wood to be a great choice for this anyway, resort was made to the styrene strip stash again, where I located a tube of .080" rod by Raboesch Super Styrene (made in Netherlands, current availability unknown). A short length of this was chucked into the Dremel & given shallow notches by turning against an X-Acto saw.

 

After making small locating divots in the end of the rod with that #11 blade, one of my smallest wire gauge bits was used to drill just deep enough to reach through the first deadeye. The outer face already sanded smooth & edges rounded by twirling against 320 sandpaper, my jeweler's saw was now used to begin the cut between the first 2 deadeyes. That kerf should begin all the way 'round to a shallow depth first though, the saw put down & a small file used to bevel THOSE edges a tad before the tiny deadeye comes loose from the end of the rod.

 

 

The cutting-off should be done over a bin positioned to catch the parts, definitely NOT over shag carpet. The fresh cut will want shaving smooth with the hobby knife & the holes want some clean-up with the drill, & it's even useful to roll each of these about for a few seconds between a couple of sheets of 320 grit paper. This isn't near enough yet, but I'll choose the best 2 or 3 of these, glue on tiny sprue gates & take them to the molding table along with some of the most useful modified crew members (not ready yet), for resin copies:

 

 

These 2 sizes match closely to the deadeyes shown on my scaled Admiralty draft. There are smaller ones aloft, certainly, & the "cheating" will begin soon enough after the rigging job has begun, but that's somewhere ahead yet.

 

For now, Fair Winds!

 

Cheers, -Lars

[Sgt.Squarehead]

7 hours ago, lars_opland said:

All 6 channels are cut to size, trimmed to fit against the hull sides & slightly bent to follow the sheer along the bottom of the deck rail, here held in place with temporary shrouds so all the chain plate notches can be "eyeballed", marked in pencil, & notched:

Nope.....You lost me at '6'.  After that you seem to have switched to ancient Hebrew! 

 

Nice pics though! 

[lars_opland]

Thanks Sarge,

Sorry about that; hard to escape the nautical jargon with a character like me building a model like this. "Nauticalese" often uses familiar words in unfamiliar ways; in this case the "channels" are the wide boards fastened to the sides of the ship, on edge, to spread the shrouds & backstays (ropes holding up the masts) wider than the ship's beam (width), giving them more mechanical or geometrical advantage in holding up the masts. Later, in the days of steel cable stays & turnbuckle adjusting, shrouds & backstays were brought inside the rails because they were much stronger, didn't stretch nearly as much under a load & thus didn't need to be spread so wide any more.

 

The sheer is the curved line of deck &/or rails as seen in profile. This curve can vary a lot from one design to another, & is usually calculated as the top of the rail on vessels with continuous rails...which Surprise doesn't have.

 

The deck rail (or deck wale) is the raised strip running along the outside of the ship at upper deck level. The kit had channels notched right into this deck rail, so I had to fill all those gaps, but Surprise's design makes the current task easier by giving me something to butt the channels against while I fiddle with all this test-fitting & notching.

 

The shrouds are the ropes ("lines" in proper seaman's parlance; "rope" ceases to be rope as soon as it is put to any particular use...) that reach from the big mast platforms down to the sides of the ship & support the masts against the loads of wind & rolling. 

 

Chainplates are iron hardware that connects from the deadeyes at the bottom ends of the shrouds, over the edges of the channels & down to the sides, below the gun ports on this one. I'll be gluing another strip of styrene along the outside edges of the channels to cover all the notches once chainplates & lower deadeyes are in place.

 

The method for calculating the necessary total combined strength of a ship's shrouds is pretty basic, but interesting: The total combined tensile strength of all the shrouds (& their chain plates, bolts, etc.) ON ONE SIDE must be adequate to lift the total tonnage of the ship. This was helpful for heaving down to do bottom work, as well as for sailing.

 

Cheers, -Lars