Identify this Sabre?

[72modeler]

I just ran across the photo I have linked  below. It is captioned as being an F-86K, which I think is correct, as it has the four 20mm cannon armament fit. I am puzzled by the wing, though. To my untrained eye, it sure looks to me to be an F40 extended span, slatted wing. (Note the distance between the outermost edge of the slat and the wingtip.) I know the F40 wing was fitted to the F-86L, but they had no guns. Were K's retrofitted with the extended span, slatted wing, and is this the wing in the photo? Just curious! I know if SJ sees this, he will probably have the photo and answer in his archives.

Mike

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/822188475693812578/

[stevehnz]

I can't find the thread just now but in a discussion on the SH 1/72 F-86K it was mentioned the wings were too narrow in chord for F-40 wings, being closer to F-86A wings. I don't recall the span being criticised so believe F-40 wings to be correct.

Steve.

[Sabrejet]

It's an NAA-built (rather than FIAT) F-86K with the retrofit 12-inch wingtip extension. All F-86Ks except 56-4116 thru -4160 came out of the factory with the short-span wing but many were later retrofitted.

[72modeler]

5 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

It's an NAA-built (rather than FIAT) F-86K with the retrofit 12-inch wingtip extension. All F-86Ks except 56-4116 thru -4160 came out of the factory with the short-span wing but many were later retrofitted.

Ha! My best modeling buddy owes me a cold one! I told him I thought it was an F40 wing, and he said "No way!" Thank you, SJ! (I might be old, but I'm not senile...yet!)

Mike

[Sabrejet]

Well I guess you're both right: extended-span, but not 6-3, so a cross between the two.

[Tony Edmundson]

1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

Well I guess you're both right: extended-span, but not 6-3, so a cross between the two.

Tell me more of the extended span non-6-3 wing.  Never seen or heard of it.

 

Tony

[Julien]

27 minutes ago, Tony Edmundson said:

Tell me more of the extended span non-6-3 wing.  Never seen or heard of it.

 

Tony

From Joe Baugher's site;

 

Quote

NA-242 (45 aircraft, December 1955, 56-4116/4160)

The NA-242 batch differed from the previous batches by having the extended wing leading edges and wingtips of the F-86F-40-NA, increasing wingspan from 37.1 to 39.1 feet and wing area from 287.9 to 313.37 square feet. Many previous Fiat-assembled F-86Ks were modified in the field to bring them up to the NA-242 standard.

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p86_17.html

 

Julien

[stevehnz]

5 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Well I guess you're both right: extended-span, but not 6-3, so a cross between the two.

More like an extended span slatted 6-3 wing which as I understand Sabre wings was the final  version of the Sabre wing with many Sabres being modified after production to bring them up to this standard.

Steve.

[Giorgio N]

Agree with Steve, it should be an extended slatted 6-3 wing... that is also colloquially known as the F-40 wing.

Aircrafts with the retrofitted extension also received the new leading edge with the same dimensions of the 6-3 wing but of course slatted.

This, according to FIAT sources, was covered in T.O. 1F-86-K-534 dated March 15th 1959, that requested the replacement of the leading edge, the addition of new extended wingtips, and a new different pitot tube (completely straight instead of bent), plus other minor works to fit the modified wing to the fuselage. The T.O. came with an indication of the serial number blocks required to receive the modifications and the indication that 56-4116 and following were to be modified on the production line.

Of the FIAT assembled aircrafts, those already delivered were retrofitted quite quickly while others were retrofitted directly on the assembly line.

 

P:S. as I mentioned the pitot tube, this is sometime the easiest way to tell if an aircraft has the narrow chord or the F-40 wing.

 

The Special Hobby kit does indeed have a wing with the correct span for an F-40 winged aircraft but a chord that is closer to the original narrow chord type. Their F-86L interestingly has two set of wings, one is the same as the K while the other is a narrow chord D style wing. Both wings though have the same chord, this being that of the narrow chord one

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Giorgio N

[72modeler]

Interesting! I did a little searching and found some print reference works that had additional information, including Air Force Legends 211 and Million Monkey Theater. The photo I posted was evidently an F-86K-19-NA, serial 54-1316, NAA-built, as SJ posted, and not Fiat. It was delivered to the Norwegian AF in 1955, carried codes SI-K, AH-F, and RI-V during its service; it was SOC in 1968, salvaged, and possibly expended as a target. In  the print articles, it was stated that that the NAA-built K's were delivered with the narrow-chord, slatted wing, but in 1959 all K's went through IRAN at Fiat where F40 6-3, extended span, slatted wings were fitted. Sooo, if that is correct, I guess it depends upon whether the photo I posted was taken before or after 1959 to help confirm the wing type. If Giorgio's post is correct, it's a shame the photo was taken from the opposite side that the pitot tube was fitted. Not having SJ's incredible Sabre reference library, and not being well-versed in the fuselage panel lines on the F-86K, it looks like the photo shows an extended span slatted wing, but I can't tell if it also has the 6-3 chord extension. (This would be a cinch on an F-86F as you could look for whether or not the wing root extended over the ammo access door or not.) I didn't mean to generate so much discussion on the photo, I mainly wanted to score a brewski from my modeling chum!

Mike

[Tony Edmundson]

All extended span wings were 6-3 chord with slats.  (until a photo surfaces which proves me wrong)

 

Tony

Edited February 5, 2018 by Tony Edmundson