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Spitfire to Seafire


Vlad

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Scraping around looking for ideas to make a Seafire Mk.II or Mk.III in 1/72. It seems I can start with a Spitfire Mk.V, fit the 4-bladed prop, 6-stack exhausts and integral armour windshield (all from a Mk.IX) and scribe the panel lines for the tailhook (retracted to keep things simple). Am I missing anything or is that close enough?

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Strengthening strips on the fuselage.  Folding wings on a Mk.III.  Strictly however you need a Mk.Vc kit as there are other subtleties compared to a Mk.Vb - undercarriage rake, cannon bulges and protruding length, position of inner machine gun, wheel rake, bulged undercarriage doors, flat wing root upper surfaces.

 

The most obvious thing you are missing is the Sword Seafire kit.  (Or indeed the High Planes one.)  Why mess about if you can go there directly?

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5 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Strengthening strips on the fuselage.  Folding wings on a Mk.III.  Strictly however you need a Mk.Vc kit as there are other subtleties compared to a Mk.Vb - undercarriage rake, cannon bulges and protruding length, position of inner machine gun, wheel rake, bulged undercarriage doors, flat wing root upper surfaces.

 

The most obvious thing you are missing is the Sword Seafire kit.  (Or indeed the High Planes one.)  Why mess about if you can go there directly?

 

Sword kits sell like hot cakes and never seem to get reissued, I can't find one. Also I thought a conversion would make for a cheaper project and a bit of fun. What Vc kit do you recommend? Vbs seem to grow on trees these days, everyone and their dog makes one, but Vcs are also hard to find and then tend to be old or not very good kits.

Edited by Vlad
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The Sword kits would be great but as Vlad has said, sold-out. They come onto evilbay now-and-again but go for silly money. So, I may have to go down the conversion route when I get round to doing mine but you never know, they might get re-issued.

 

Stuart

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Basically, yes.  Annoyingly, the Airwaves conversion sets that would make various Seafires from the Airfix Mk.Vb are out of production now.  However, the High Planes Seafire kits are still available.  https://www.hpmhobbies.com/categories/Scale-Models/Aircraft/1%3A72/  They need a bit of work tidying up before assembly, but are pretty good.

 

As for a Mk.Vc, other than Sword (which is a little bit short on span anyway), there is one from Special Hobby but I can't comment on its quality - it is a pretty recent kit.

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There is a Sword kit Seafire III at this Canadian shop.  Price might be alright when looking at the exchange rate, but I know UK members seem to get hit with import duties/tax?

 

https://www.westcoasthobbys.com/products?keys=seafire&field_brand_tid=All&field_category_tid=All&field_collection_tid=All&sort_by=title&sort_order=ASC&items_per_page=33

 

nvm, just realized it's the larger scale than the OP is seeking.

regards,

Jack

Edited by JackG
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Didn't I read somewhere that Special Hobby have a Seafire II and III as future releases in 1/72? No idea of when, and many of their future releases that were announced 2-3 years ago have yet to be released. If you don't want to wait and can't find a Sword Vc or Seafire II/III at a decent price, maybe you could:

 

Use the new Airfix Mk Va or the Vb kit of your choice, and reconfigure the wings to have the Vc armament fit by correcting and rescribing the gunport and ejector chute locations. That's going to be the hardest part. You could then use one of the resin aftermarket detail sets for the upper and lower cannon blisters and Hispanos, or rob them from another kit that has the correct shapes. The 4-blade Rotol prop, spinner, and six-stack exhausts (for the LFIII) should be easy to find, as well as the bulged undercart fairing doors. The arrestor hook and catapault spools should be doable, and you can always use decal stock to make the reinforcement strips added around the radio access hatch and to reinforce the fuselaqe longerons. A lot of work, with some rescribing, but all of it is not that hard. If I didn't have two Sword Vc's and two Seafire II/III's already, that's what I was looking at. I'm betting Graham, Troy, Spitfire Addict, or Tony T would be more helpful than I on your project.

Mike

 

Another way to go, but maybe crazy, would be to get one of the Eduard early IX's and convert it back to the Merlin 45/46 Seafire II/III- you would have the 4-blade props/pinner/six stack exhausts as well as the bulged undercart fairing doors. It would already have the C wings, but you would have to remove the one coolant radiator and replace with a Mk V oil cooler. Use the fixed tail wheel kit  option. Shorten the nose or cut off and attach the Mk V nose of your choice, and then apply the naval fittings as listed above, and do some rescribing. Remove the incorrect cannon/landing gear blisters and voila- (That's French for "I'll be d----!") a Seafire!

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I’m currently converting the new Spitfire Airfix I/II into a Vc.

 

It’s a small extra step to get to a Seafire I or II. Neither has a folding wing and so a hook and fuselage strengthening are the only extras.

 

Trevor

 

 

 

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A magnificent effort, but the work involved in your thread provides an excellent illustration of why this isn't quite such a good idea as it might seem at first.  There's a lot of work whichever way you go, which is why trying (and trying again) to get a Seafire kit is the recommended route.  Or at least a Mk.Vc, assuming that you don't want a Seafire Ib.

 

You can even thin down the wings of the Airfix Mk.Vc: although I can't say that's recommended, it can be done.  I've a feeling there was an Airfix Club release of a Seafire Mk.Ib, but that's probably even more difficult to get hold of than a Sword kit.

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The only Seafire Airfix released in 72nd was the IIc in the club boxing.  If you can find one of the later Airfix Vc kits produced in India (says so on the box), the Seafire parts are on the Vc sprue, the original Vb canopy is included and the decals are far superior to those produced under the Humbrol era.  This means that you can get a Seafire Ib or a Seafire IIc out of the box, although you'd still need some plastic card bits on the fuselage.  However, you still have to deal with that vile C wing.

 

Really, your options are limited to either finding a Sword Seafire II/IIIc (pricy), buying a CMR one (even more pricy!), or finding a High Planes one (they do take some cleanup and fettling but are well worth the money).  You could also try the Pavla Seafire IIIc released under their Octopus label, but it needs a replacement wing (the Airfix IXc wing will fit) as the kit one is horrendous.  Personally, I wouldn't bother with the latter option.

 

However, you may have a fairy godmother...

 

 

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It may sound strange, but building a Seafire III from a Mk.IX has some advantages compared to modifying a Vb...

A IX will include a number of details that would need sorting if a Vb is used as a basis, like propeller, exhausts, tailplanes and aerovee intake. Of course it will also have the correct C wing.

A Mk,IX will also have one correct detail that many Mk.V lack: a proper internally armoured windscreen !

The windscreen may sound like a smaller detail but there is a clear shape difference between the two styles. There are of course plenty of vacform replacements around but adding a late style internally armoured windscreen to a fuselage designed for the earlier externally armoured unit is not easy as will require filling a cavity right below a clear part.

Sure this route requires shortening the nose of a kit, not the simplest job. It can be done and I did this a few years ago with an Italeri Spitfire IX ( a kit I would not suggest to anyone). I've recently considered trying the same conversion on an Airfix Mk. IX as this is now superceded by the Eduard offering, at least in my stash.

 

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However, the oil radiator is an because it would involve filling in whatever fitting and locating gaps the Mk.IX kit has, scratchbuilding or stealing from a V and making it all look nice. Also, how do you correct the underside cowling curvature when shortening the nose? I imagine that's no easy feat either. Getting both a V and a IX seems to be the only option for a kitbash and even with the cheapest kits that approaches or exceeds the price of the dedicated ones, availability notwithstanding.

 

I've noted all your advice and options but my conclusion is this is no longer something I want to try. Looks like I may be in luck though with acquiring a Sword Seafire kit ;)

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33 minutes ago, Beard said:

If you can wait a little while, AZ/ KP are releasing a MkVc later this year. 

Ooh, interesting. I would probably use that to make a 4-cannon trop, they look pretty mean and unique.

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On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 3:42 PM, Graham Boak said:

Chopping a Mk.IX occurred to me too, but at current prices two Spitfire (a Mk.IX and a Mk.V) kits would probably cost more than the High Planes kit.

Fortunately for me, Graham, my buddy and I ordered two each of the Eduard overtrees when they were available- getting four cost the same as one for the shipping, so was a god deal. Usually, I wait until it's too late!

Mike

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8 hours ago, Vlad said:

However, the oil radiator is an because it would involve filling in whatever fitting and locating gaps the Mk.IX kit has, scratchbuilding or stealing from a V and making it all look nice. Also, how do you correct the underside cowling curvature when shortening the nose? I imagine that's no easy feat either. Getting both a V and a IX seems to be the only option for a kitbash and even with the cheapest kits that approaches or exceeds the price of the dedicated ones, availability notwithstanding.

 

I've noted all your advice and options but my conclusion is this is no longer something I want to try. Looks like I may be in luck though with acquiring a Sword Seafire kit ;)

Converting the Mk IX radiator to an oil cooler is actually pretty easy; you can remove the rectangular section that surrounds the radiator and replace it with the same section that has the correct oil cooler; (I've got several Tamiya Vb's that I'm using as parts donors.) or you can fill and sand the existing radiator mount area and fit an oil cooler. For the nose, it's very easy to cut the Mk Vb nose from the donor  kit of your choice along the firewall and carefully along the curved panel line at the wing root- my buddy did this and it fit like a glove! If I go the conversion route, I think that's what I will do, but I do have a couple of Sword Seafire II's and II's, so I'm not painted into a corner like he was! (I told him he should have ordered them, as I thought they were going to get snapped up, but did he listen to me......he did not!)

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
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4 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 ... an Italeri Spitfire IX ( a kit I would not suggest to anyone). 

Amen!  I've still got mine because I couldn't think of anyone in the world I hate so much that they deserved to receive it even as a gift.

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Well Mike your Tamiya Vb will provide the short nose too.  You're away!  If you haven't got a Tamiya spare you might have an older flat-bottomed Revell Mk.I.

 

The problem with using the Airfix Mk.IX wing is that it's too broad in chord  so why bother?  I gather it is the leading edge that is too far forward but I haven't checked that for myself.  But is a good fuselage.

 

I'm not that unkind about the Italeri kit - it's always something to use up Tamiya noses, odd bits etc.  That and a bit of attention to the radiator (cut it off, squeeze the sides together, glue it back on).  The fuselage (aft of the engine) is excellent, from memory the wing is pretty fine.  You are going to buy aftermarket canopies and props anyway, aren't you?  (or use the Tamiya, maybe?)

Edited by Graham Boak
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7 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

Amen!  I've still got mine because I couldn't think of anyone in the world I hate so much that they deserved to receive it even as a gift.

You got that right- throw in their Gawdawful P-47N! I couldn't bear unloading it on some unsuspecting modeler, so I stripped it for what useful parts it had and am using the airframe as a paint mule!

Mike

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17 hours ago, Vlad said:

However, the oil radiator is an because it would involve filling in whatever fitting and locating gaps the Mk.IX kit has, scratchbuilding or stealing from a V and making it all look nice. Also, how do you correct the underside cowling curvature when shortening the nose? I imagine that's no easy feat either. Getting both a V and a IX seems to be the only option for a kitbash and even with the cheapest kits that approaches or exceeds the price of the dedicated ones, availability notwithstanding.

 

I've noted all your advice and options but my conclusion is this is no longer something I want to try. Looks like I may be in luck though with acquiring a Sword Seafire kit ;)

 

If you've found a Sword kit, then you have the best possible option in your hand :smile:

If going with a conversion, the radiator is relatively easy to find as aftermarket accessory. Some kits will require filling the gap from the square Mk.IX radiator but some don't. The Airfix kit has just a flat surface under the radiator so it would make things easier.

Mike already mentioned how other areas cna be sorted, but of course, with the Sword kit there's no need to go through this kind of work.

 

15 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Well Mike your Tamiya Vb will provide the short nose too.  You're away!  If you haven't got a Tamiya spare you might have an older flat-bottomed Revell Mk.I.

 

The problem with using the Airfix Mk.IX wing is that it's too broad in chord  so why bother?  I gather it is the leading edge that is too far forward but I haven't checked that for myself.  But is a good fuselage.

 

I'm not that unkind about the Italeri kit - it's always something to use up Tamiya noses, odd bits etc.  That and a bit of attention to the radiator (cut it off, squeeze the sides together, glue it back on).  The fuselage (aft of the engine) is excellent, from memory the wing is pretty fine.  You are going to buy aftermarket canopies and props anyway, aren't you?  (or use the Tamiya, maybe?)

 

On the other hand I am unkind towards the Italeri Mk.IX. Apart from the well known issues (engine cowling too short and radiators), there's more that I don't like. The fuselage for example is flat under the cockpit while the section is elliptical on the real machine. The rear fuselage is better, apart from the lack of wing-fuselage fillet.

The wing is IMHO not great but could have been decent... could have been if Italeri had not mismatched the location of the inner MGs ejection chutes, that have been moulded in the wrong place. The wheell well also suffer from having angled walls instead of straight. Landing gear covers are flat instead of bulged, but this is something that few got right, and the propeller is really a joke. Really this kit needs so many additions to get it right that the Eduard one becomes much better value for money.

Now all of the above are comments coming from the perspective of someone who has an interested in accuracy of shapes and details and I realize that many other modellers don't care that much and will be happy with the angled radiator walls and so on. Well, even for modellers who just want to build a Spitfire, this kit is a nightmare, with the fuselage assembly in particular being quite tricky. This is a kit that is not accurate and does not fit well.

Is there anything positive ? Well, the decal sheet in the only one I bought was very, very good, and I plan of using one of the options on one of my Eduard overtrees

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